Dust Collection Upgrade Needed. Harvey 700 vs 800?

Dust collection has always been a bit of a weak point for me. However, my work has progressed to the point where I am in the shop 90% of the time so the investment is now justified. I'm getting more than a little tired of wearing a respirator to make up for poor quality dust collection.

Current setup:
https://www.rocklerpro.com/rockler-w...ector-1250-cfm
1.5hp 1250 cfm with hepa filter. This has done fine for general dust but I want to get myself set up with something that is far superior. The biggest points on this collector when I bought it were noise, and cost $300 or so.

My shop is tragically small. I'd love to build a new one and consider moving into a rental, but for now I do have to shuffle machines around for access to different tools. As such, I end up moving a hose from one machine to the next and don't expect that to change in the near future.

I'm looking at the Harvey units, but must admit having poor understanding of how different stats work. At first glance, It doesn't look like these units would have a significant increase in flow, but I'm assuming that there is something critical that I don't understand about dust collection and am hoping someone can help me out with that.

I'm leaning towards the Harvey because of how loud/quiet it is. That's a critical consideration in my situation.

Finally, I'm struggling to understand if there is value in the 800 over the 700. There doesn't seem to be a large change in CFM but I'm wondering if a core part of my misunderstanding in dust collection relates to HP and the 3hp will be far better than 2?

Greatly appreciate the input and assistance!

Based on "actual performance", it is my opinion that the G800 is not going to give you as much "return on investment". The G800 increases the power from 2HP to 3HP and the impeller size from 12" to 12-1/2". These increases don't actually give you much for double the price (the G800 only has a 65 CFM increase compared to G700). It does seem that the G800 has a bunch more features that will keep the suction performance "ongoing" and steady (pulse filter cleaning, filter monitor, flow monitor/control, delayed stop, wireless synchronized automatic start). These features may help if you are not someone who constantly pays attention to what the dust collector is doing and how much dust is collecting/clogging. It depends on how you work in your shop.

If you want a similar machine type that "performs" better than the G700, I would look into the Laguna X|Flux: 5 ($4500). Alternatively, you could look into a Felder RL140 if you want a more high end machine similar in cost to the G800 (somewhere between $6200-6500 depending on configuration).

The big benefit of the Harvey dust collectors is the speed control that will allow you to control the CFM/suction and noise. The Laguna/Felder options are single speed (i.e. full speed).

You can buy more than two G700s for the cost of a single G800 with the frequent aggressive pricing on the former! So far, I'm very pleased with the G700. The singular issue I've experienced is the potential for clogging at the inlet because of the grid when thicknessing certain materials like pine...where the "stuff" is big and fluffy. I may find a way to do away with the grid accordingly.

Wow, that Laguna collector somehow flew under my radar. Looks strong and boasts a 69dBA rating. I’m going to have to learn more about that machine.

With either machine, how significant of a difference should I be expecting over my current setup? What should I be looking at to better understand the strengths/weaknesses of these different options?

Thanks!

Your typical 1-1/2HP dust collectors will only have an impeller sized at 11" to 11-1/2". They advertise as "1100 CFM", but you are realistically only going to get about 450-500 CFM once you have hoses and machines hooked up.

The Harvey G700 is not significantly more powerful at 2HP with a 12" impeller, but it will be an improvement. The variable speed adjustment allows you to turn down suction and noise. The Harvey's speed really needs to be tuned to the woodworking machine because too much suction can pull the dust all the way through and clog the filters easier. Not really an issue with stuff like tablesaw or planer/jointer, but be careful with sanding machines that create a very fine light weight dust.

The Harvey will take up more floor space because it's 56" long and it has the inlet in front so it will soak up a big square of floor space once you add the hoses, unless you put the dust collector in a corner. However, it's not that tall. It's about the size of a smallish cabinet saw (33" high and 24" deep). You can have shelves above it if you have the wallspace.

The Laguna X|Flux 5 will take up a smaller chunk of floor (36" x 38"), but its 7-1/2 feet tall (giant!) so you need to make sure you have ceiling space. It has a much bigger 5HP motor with 14-1/2" impeller. It has a large 8" inlet on the side which mean you need to do some ducting or have y-splitters for your smaller hoses. But the Laguna will pull insane amounts of CFM compared to the G700 or the G800/G1000. That being said, it is a "full speed ahead only" type of machine. You can basically run two machines at the same time with the Laguna (including a tablesaw with two 4" hoses).

Harvey G700 real world performance: about 700 CFM

Laguna X|Flux 5 real world performance: about 1800 CFM

Both weigh about the same at around 450lbs, but the Harvey has wheels.

If you have a table saw with an over-arm blade guard dust collector, the Laguna may be too much suction if you only have two 4" hoses opened up. It will suck small pieces of wood into the over-arm dust collector! Having three to four 4" hoses open with the Laguna may be better in some cases. It just depends on what you're working with.

I have a Harvey G-700 and it is hard piped to a range of machines: an SCM SC3 slider, an SCM 16" jointer/planer, a 14" bandsaw, a router table and a shaper. It handles dust extraction from all of these admirably with the following caveats:

1. The 16" jointer/planer on a wide board, say 12" or so, even on a light cut, overwhelmed the machine (through about 30 feet of 5" and 6" duct) due to the grid protecting the fan on the suction inlet to the machine. I cut that out and it now sucks with impunity.

2. The bins are kind of small. It is not unusual for me to empty the bags twice a day if I am processing a lot of rough material on the jointer / planer. Not a major problem, but certainly not a fun event. Note that I reuse the bags and dump their contents into a larger contractor bag rather than just tossing them out.

I only run one machine at a time and doubt that it can handle two. It is very quiet, which is why I bought it. Although I am an engineer, performance numbers are meaningless without context, and in my humble opinion, the real world performance of the G-700 justifies its existence in my shop.

Just an observation as I have no experience with either of those machines: you will likely get better performance by reducing the amount of flex hose rather than upgrading to a more powerful collector. Flex hose hugely diminishes the performance of the collector. If you are using a long reach of hose to deal with the movement of your machines, you might actually be better off with a collector on rollers than with a fixed location collector and a long hose.

I may have missed it regarding a height limitation or something but given the prices mentioned in the threads above, why not consider the Oneida V3000? It fits into a corner in about a 3x3 space, provided you have the height, which is around 7' (ish). The air flow is truly superb with the 3hp motor option and the noise isn't that loud. I had one with my previous setup and had it plumbed for my full shop with 6" pipe. Had so much airflow it would lift work pieces off the saw top via only a 3" hose connection to the blade guard. Had to throttle that back with a gate. Had plenty of flow to handle 2 or 3 tools. It's not as pretty or as newly designed as the horizontal units like the Harvey, but it is a proven design that just works, and it's made in USA with USA made motor if that maters. You can also choose from a few different sawdust container sizes (35g or 50g). And I think they offer a 5hp version as well, but I don't think it's needed for a small shop that is say 500sq ft or less in size. With a V3000 you could plumb just a single wall and have multiple drops with gates along that wall. Keep tools connected to those gates and pull them already connected as you use them. https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-coll...ollector-v2019

This time around I didn't have a spot for one but ended up going with the little brother, the Oneida Mini Gorilla. it's basically a shrunken version of the V series and works well for one tool at a time, but it only has about 1/3 or 1/4 the airflow of the V3000. I'm doing somewhat like you with some moving tools, but I decided to make my table saw, planer and dust collector positions fixed and I'm moving a 5" hose with magport connectors from tool to tool. Then for other items further away like my jointer, I simply attach another piece of 5" hose with magports to reach. I'd love to have another V3000 some day though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Canter

I have a Harvey G-700 and it is hard piped to a range of machines: an SCM SC3 slider, an SCM 16" jointer/planer, a 14" bandsaw, a router table and a shaper. It handles dust extraction from all of these admirably with the following caveats:

1. The 16" jointer/planer on a wide board, say 12" or so, even on a light cut, overwhelmed the machine (through about 30 feet of 5" and 6" duct) due to the grid protecting the fan on the suction inlet to the machine. I cut that out and it now sucks with impunity.

2. The bins are kind of small. It is not unusual for me to empty the bags twice a day if I am processing a lot of rough material on the jointer / planer. Not a major problem, but certainly not a fun event. Note that I reuse the bags and dump their contents into a larger contractor bag rather than just tossing them out.

I only run one machine at a time and doubt that it can handle two. It is very quiet, which is why I bought it. Although I am an engineer, performance numbers are meaningless without context, and in my humble opinion, the real world performance of the G-700 justifies its existence in my shop.

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I also have the g700. I have a love/hate relationship with it. If you are doing a LOT of planing and creating barrels of shavings, I would suggest a different machine. I had a couple big planing jobs and was emptying every 1/2 hour (or less!).

Pros:
Compact design that fits under a cabinet
Relatively easy to empty bin
Adequate suction (could be 30% greater), but need to keep filters clean to maintain it.

Cons:
It has a tendency to clog up. I had a problem with splinters from planing DF.
Bins only hold 21 gal (I measured) before machine shuts down due to bin overload. Harvey advertises 35 gal capacity, which is a theoretical maximum, and nonsense.
Only 3 casters (one nonswivel), which makes it hard to maneuver in tight spaces
Main power switch is at back of machine requiring creative rewiring in tight spaces
Changing filters is a real PITA

My $0.02 after 1 year of use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Canter

1. The 16" jointer/planer on a wide board, say 12" or so, even on a light cut, overwhelmed the machine (through about 30 feet of 5" and 6" duct) due to the grid protecting the fan on the suction inlet to the machine. I cut that out and it now sucks with impunity.

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Glad to see this solved things for you, Mark. It's my singular concern with my own G700 based on the first project I used it for with the J/P. Same issue so I'm going to move forward with removing the grid, too. My tool lineup is nearly the same, but my J/P is the FS350 which is a hair narrower than your 410mm wide unit.

I have to ask the question....why would anyone think a 12" impeller is a good idea?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris Parks

I have to ask the question....why would anyone think a 12" impeller is a good idea?

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Single phase power in shops not abundantly endowed with sufficient amperage circuits?

Which doesn’t make it a great idea though.

That does not make it a good idea but I doubt that single phase could not handle a bigger impeller if it can run a TS fully loaded during a cut.

I think that’s the problem Chris…lots of home shops can only really support one machine at a time with that kind of draw.

I shouldn’t talk…I have 72 Amps of 415v 3Ø and 100 Amps of 240v available but I still run a generic 2 hp dust extractor with 6’ of hose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Quenneville

I think that’s the problem Chris…lots of home shops can only really support one machine at a time with that kind of draw.

I shouldn’t talk…I have 72 Amps of 415v 3Ø and 100 Amps of 240v available but I still run a generic 2 hp dust extractor with 6’ of hose.

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Greg, needing to support one machine is normal for a hobby workshop but getting a 12" impeller to do it properly is dreamland stuff and the DE retail offerings are just ripping people off as a rule with a few notable exceptions. It is what it is and if people want to buy DE's specified by HP or because they are quite I have no worries about that but if they buy them knowing that 2HP means exactly zip that is sheer folly. I doubt I will get many positive answers to my question which will make my point without me adding anything more and quite dust extractors means not enough air is being moved.

Hey Chris. Not everyone has $5k+ and space to implement a big 5HP 16" impeller dust collector. The market has products for all price points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bryan Hall

I'm looking at the Harvey units, but must admit having poor understanding of how different stats work. At first glance, It doesn't look like these units would have a significant increase in flow, but I'm assuming that there is something critical that I don't understand about dust collection and am hoping someone can help me out with that.

I'm leaning towards the Harvey because of how loud/quiet it is. That's a critical consideration in my situation.

Finally, I'm struggling to understand if there is value in the 800 over the 700. There doesn't seem to be a large change in CFM but I'm wondering if a core part of my misunderstanding in dust collection relates to HP and the 3hp will be far better than 2?

Greatly appreciate the input and assistance!

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i had a similiar situation. I went with the 800 because i like the design/layout a bit more, the automatic filter cleaning and other fancy features, and there was a serious improvement over the 700 in the power curve/static pressure gains. I have a fairly large duct plant that i segment with metal ivac ports. I havent had any issues with big chip producers or power as others have. Static pressure on thr 800 is good. Dont focus too much on impeller size. When i am doing big chip jobs i fill up the bin quickly, but it has 3 bins for different size chips and i only empty one. I like that the bags arent too big and its fast to change. I didnt want a 50g drum. I had a specific space available that would fit the 800. If you want it to be under something, go with thr 700 (like a table).

good luck!

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