Wow! Great wife! - this is about a table saw

Tonight my wife suggests I order my table saw and have it delivered before my birthday, she was going to order it and surprise me but then thought I should be a bit more involved in the process. I am quite sure she would have purchase the correct item no less.

After much internal conflict and debate I have decided to get a Sawstop. This decision is based on two things:
1- It does appear to be a very good tool that is well built. (though the inventor could be considered a tool himself too).
2- My wife really wants me to have the safety of this machine. I want her to have buy in on a $3000+ purchase, and I do.

The saw will be 3hp 220, 36" fence, and rolling base.

I am going to hold off on this until August or September, this is prime yard work time and having that saw sitting there mostly unused while I dig trenches, paint the house, build raised flower beds, and a set of compost bins would be torture.

Another torture I am suffering is PCS v ICS.
Since I was just a wee little lad I had been told to only get a cabinet saw with a one piece cast iron trunnion. The ICS has one, the PCS does not. It seems the PCS owners are wildly happy with their saws but do they know what they are missing by not having a 1 piece trunnion? And that weight, that 250+ lbs of iron? Does that not make a difference in vibration of stability?

Oh wo is me who has a wife endorsing the purchase of expensive machine and I cannot make up my mind.

Thoughts?

I wish I had your dilemma?:D

:D I just went through this, I have the PCS 3hp, 36 in fence with (mobile base rebate/free with purchase before April 30th) It is now sitting in my Basement awaiting the assembly this weekend. I have been wanting one for awhile, and wanting to teach my kids woodworking with one, I feel better about them using it. My son and I used an appliance dolly to get it down my basement stairs. He was shocked it weighed as much as it did. He of course had the bottom spot, even though he is 15, he already is 6' 4". I opted for the PCS due to my narrow stairway down to my shop area. I'll post Pictures of the progress on my own thread later. Glad someone else has one of those girls that just make us happy. :D Dan

Good dilemma to have, now I'll just throw more sand into your decision making gears. If you intend to put a router table onto the table saw, know that the ICS is unusually deep. I was recently fortunate enough to secure a Benchdog cast iron router table extension from another Creeker who had gotten an ICS. He wasn't able to use the table, which is the standard 27" wide to match a standard 27" deep table saw. Of course, if your router table (if you have/plan to have one) and table saw go their own separate ways, this is a non-issue for you.

I can't speak to the differences between the PCS and ICS, but I rolled with the ICS and it is a solid piece of equipment. My 2 cents is go big.

Congrats! I went through your trouble (smile) a couple months back. You will absolutely love that tool. It is quality for top to bottom.

I did go with the ICS but for a specific reason. I had a grizzly 3hp 1023 for 9+ years. I struggled to spend the money to upgrade but have wanted a sawstop for the safety since they first came out. Saved for years, and recently got a couple projects that funded the rest. I really wanted to upgrade to 5hp. If the PCS had come in 5hp I would have went that direction.

There are a few benefits with the ICS i.e. more cast iron. A tad more depth on the table which i have to admit is nice, but not a deal breaker. The interlocks are nice to disable the power, but thats not a concern for me as my kids are grown so unless my twin nephews are visiting it won't matter. I do really love the ICS though and you will love the PCS if you go that route

The dust collection is top notch! A couple of recommendations. First get the industrial base, it's worth every penny. Second, unless you really need the space for ply, you don't need the longest rails. I had the 7' rails on my griz and it took up some space, but add the width of the ICS table and those long rails really take up space. IT's nice but big! Only thing I'd do diff is probably go with the next size down. IT's great space to hold things but it will chew up floor space.
Customer service is top notch. After I'd had mine for a few weeks, I noticed on the fence rail in the front, a small chip in the powder coating. I don't know if it happened when I put the fence in or if it came that way. I mean 1/16" wide by about 1/4" long. I called and asked if that had some touch-up paint just to keep it from rusting. Nope, new rail on the way no question no nothing. It arrived and is downstairs waiting to install. (been there for a month).

Default blade that comes with it is ok, but I'd replace it. I got their top quality gold blade that is very reasonable and ships quick. It is based on the Forrest WWII design and the cut quality is good. For the $$ it's a great value. I however have been a Forrest fan forever, and the amount of carbide and quality of cut just is top notch. I got a new WWII and that's my go to blade.

I did a review on my purchase on another forum if you want the details on the ICS.

I'm an old iron guy so take it for what it is worth. I have had discussions with hard core heavy machine guys and taking the safety factor out of the equation, the ICS is considered built to a better standard than the old 10" saws and almost up to the build of the 12" PM 72, Rockwell 12-14 catagory. Whether you need that is your call but the internal differences are significant between the two models. Dave

I really appreciate all the positive feedback on this thread. I know she was prepared to spend $3200 in the next couple weeks, maybe I can scrounge up another $1000 and get into the ICS. Something about the "hybrid" style trunnion on the PCS bugs me.

I downloaded the manuals for ICS and PCS last night, the images of the trunnions are huge so far as I can tell. It appears the ICS could be used as a tornado shelter it is built so well.

BTW, mine will live in my heated/air conditioned insulated garage. I have a walk out basement so even then the weight is not a concern.

What I may do is buy something items in anticipation like dado set, a great blade for plywood - new bathroom vanities and kitchen cabinets are the first major projects to be tackled.

Thoughts on dado sets?

Congrats on the saw but have feeling talking wife into saw stop if can manage the coast not to hard a sell.

I just made the exact same decision with prompting from my wife... Ended up buying the 5hp ICS, as I figured this saw will be with me for many, many years to come. The ICS is built like a tank! 650lbs with teh 52" fence! You will definitely want access to a pallet jack or very good friends when it comes time to drag it into your shop! :)

Good luck with the purchase... I love mine! Glad I showed that hot dog video to the wife!

Mike

Dale,
I bought my ICS under similar circumstances. Prior to the purchase, I used a PCS at a woodworking school. The ICS just has more mass. The larger table and heavier internal guts are heavier on the ICS than the PCS. The mobile base is also wonderful. My wife "pulled the trigger" in a Woodcraft store after I had experienced a kick back on a contractor saw with no riving knife and put a nice dent in a garage door. Sometimes, visuals help. :) Enjoy the new saw. In either case, you will be getting a really nice saw.
Tom

She knew from the get go I would be spending $3000+, and she has known that for years.
Initially I was only looking at Delta Unisaw. Seems there have been issues with ownership, supply etc.
This led me to consider Powermatic PM2000.
The Sawstop PCS seemed like a no brainer as it fell into the same price range then I learned of the hybrid style trunnion and then scratched it off the list.
Then I learned of the ICS and the $1000 premium.

I am worried I am putting to much emphasis on the trunnions or not enough. I am pretty certain this will be the only cabinet saw I ever purchase.

I just glanced as a Wood Magazine 3hp saw review and the top two were PCS and Unisaw. Noted items:
PCS -
- exclusive safety blade-brake
- rip fence that did not deflect at all
- blade guard and riving knife are easily setup
- a built-in mobile base
- best dust collection of the group.
Unisaw -
- made-in-the-U.S.
- favorite blade guard and riving-knife system of the group
- great miter gauge
- largest crosscut capacity in front of the blade
- large top
- massive trunnion
- heaviest saw, front loaded controls.

My point is they specify the joy of a massive trunnion, larger top, and weight, as being beneficial - both are features of the ICS saw too. For the record, Unisaw is not on my current list but used as an example.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thomas L. Miller

Dale,
I bought my ICS under similar circumstances. Prior to the purchase, I used a PCS at a woodworking school. The ICS just has more mass. The larger table and heavier internal guts are heavier on the ICS than the PCS.

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You are exactly the person I need!
Can you specify performance differences between the two saws since you have experience with them both such as:
- vibration
- stability
- repeat-ability
- flex

The 52" is out of the question for me, definitely 36", 3hp. I have a track saw to break down sheet stock.

I went from a Unisaw (which i purchased new about 24 years ago) sold it and got a PCS 3HP with a 52" and a ICS mobile base, love the base with the hydraulic lift and full swivel casters so you can move it any direction without having to "parallel park" it. After getting the sawstop and using it for a while, I became very impressed with the overall quality of the saw, they didn't just make a saw that will stop in the event of a contact, they made a saw that meets or exceeds my old Unisaw quality.

I also had a Unisaw and went with the ICS. The Sawstop ICS is a great saw and glad I got it. The mobile bas is great. Makes moving the saw around very easy and this saw is solid! Likeit much more than my unisaw.