Crosscut saw leaves a better finish after a few cuts - is this normal?

I recently rehabbed and sharpened up an 11 point Disston No. 12. I filed jointed it and filed it rip to get the teeth in decent shape, then adjusted the set, did a light jointing and sharpened it crosscut, with about 12 degrees or rake and 20 degrees of fleam. I don't know if those are good angles, I remember getting those angles from somewhere, but don't remember where.

I've not much experience in sharpening up crosscut saws - my small carcase saws haven't needed sharpening yet, and most of crosscuts I had been doing with pull saws. Initially, it was leaving behind a pretty smooth finish on the face, but with a fair amount of shredding/tearout on the exit of the cut. I was hoping I didn't do something stupid like put the fleam in wrong direction (against the set) But I hadn't taken any precautions on the exit side like marking with a knife or anything. I was going to take a photo, but couldn't find the camera.

But sawing some maple (rather than the cherry and poplar I had been sawing) I noticed that the cut seems much smoother on the exit, with less splintering now that it's been through a few cuts - is this normal? I'll try to get a photo of a cut, but what sort of finish should I expect from a finer-toothed saw like this? I figure it should be rougher than my even-finer-toothed backsaw, but I've no idea what's normal.

What about the angles - I'm still getting a feel for what's right for each saw - I'm happing with the speed of cut, but wonder if I should adjust any of those angles for a smoother cut. Opinions?

I'm a novice saw sharpener, but 12 and 20 is a nice aggressive filing a crosscut. 20 is a pretty typical amount of fleam although smaller toothed saws often have 15 degrees. 12-15 degrees is pretty typical for rake. I have an old atkins panel saw that I sharpened with 25 degrees of fleam - the extra fleam gives a very smooth cut, the tradeoff being that it will supposedly dull faster. If you increase both the fleam and the rake you will get a slightly smoother cut, but if you've already sharpened the saw well as is I wouldn't bother.

Regarding the saw cutting smoother after a few uses - that is very typical. Using the saw wears the teeth a little and will take off any burrs from filing that remained. I don't know if this happens but I wonder if using it also decreased/even out the set a bit, which if the saw was over set would smooth out the cut.

BTW stoning the sides of the teeth immediately after sharpening will also have both these effects.

One more thing - just about any saw will leave some splintering on the exit of the cut if the fibers are not supported by something like a bench hook, but once again increasing the fleam and relaxing the rake will reduce this.

This is one reason I mark all the sides of the cut. If the cut stays on the line, only the waste side has any splintering.

Chris is right on about the set, rake and fleam all having an effect on how much splintering and how fast (aggressive) a saw cuts.

Some woods will naturally splinter more than others.

I would leave the saw as it is and just find another one to experiment with different settings until you find your personal sweet spot.

This may be the most difficult part of saw sharpening, deciding on what tooth count, rake and fleam works best for you.

jtk

Hi Joshua,

What Chris said.... all good useful information.

I'd add a few more comments.... if you have a silicone carbide flat stone, try doing a very light jointing along the tooth edge. A fine file will do the same thing. This will even out any teeth that are longer than others. Even though you are careful to file off only half of the flat from your initial jointing, you will still, in most cases, end up with a few teeth that are a little longer. That's all it takes to give you more splintering on the exit side of the kerf. You won't eliminate the splintering, but having all the teeth the same length will help, and it will give you a more smoother feel when you are sawing.

Also, with a No.12...11PPI saw, you don't need much set in the teeth, only about .006 per side. Those saws have extra taper ground on the saw plate. Sometimes, depending on the type of wood you are sawing, you can get by without any set, but with zero set, the saw will drag in the kerf just a bit. However, with zero set, you will get a very smooth sawed surface, plus less splintering.

I always use 15 degree rake and 25 degree fleam on my crosscut handsaws and get excellent performance from them. The 25 degree fleam doesn't dull any sooner than 20 degrees. Compare it to a rip saw with zero fleam. A rip saw doesn't get dull faster than a crosscut saw.

As for speed at which the saw cuts.... can you actually tell the difference? If you can, it will be very little. The amount of speed increase will be attributed to the rake angle much more than the fleam angle when you are comparing only a 5 degree difference.

Thanks for the input guys.

I knew that marking all around would be a good bet - I usually take some sort of precaution if I'm overly concerned about the piece I was cutting, I was more curious about the performance of the saw.

As a note, when I mentioned adjusting the set after the initial filing, I actually meant reducing, not adding any! It's got pretty minimal set, but I'm thinking it could stand to go even less - it wasn't until using a little bit that I realized, that like Marv said, this blade is much more dramatically taper ground.

No, I'm not really concerned about speed that much - I guess when I said I was happy with the speed, I meant compared to when it was dull and ragged!

I guess I'll try a little more fleam next time I'm sharpening. I'll stone off a little of the set, too.

Thanks guys!

Hi Joshua. When stoning the set back, the very point of each saw tooth is slightly flattened out. .It pays inspec,t and if required resharpen those points again to avoid having your saw perform poorly.


Regards; Stewie