Malcolm -> I have the exact same Rikon 3hp saw and really like it too, but I'm not happy with my current blade. What are you using on it that had great success with the veneer?
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Malcolm -> I have the exact same Rikon 3hp saw and really like it too, but I'm not happy with my current blade. What are you using on it that had great success with the veneer?
Thank you, I'll give that one a try!
Here is what the original doors look like under the veneers. Can you believe these gaps??? It just goes to show with a veneer on top, you don’t have to be perfect underneath. I am NOT saying this is the right way, and I would never make a door this poorly, but it is interesting to see these lasted this long and would have lasted longer if not for the sprinkler going off in the fire.
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Love reading about this project you are involved in. Where I am this sort of thing basically never happens. Hard to believe the questionable build techniques in the old doors. As you say the veneer was a critical component. Pretty and functional at the same time. Nice shop you are putting together as well. As others have said keep posting on this project and others as you move forward. It's always a pleasure to see the work of a skilled craftsman. You make hard jobs look easy.
Today we replaced the veneer on two of the old doors. Again- we are replacing veneer on doors that the core is still good, and for others we are completely building new doors. For the old doors, we peel off the veneer with a heat gun and a large timber framing chisel, which is what I found best for peeling up the veneer. For the old doors, we have to veneer them as one unit. For the new doors we veneer the parts before we run them through the shaper.
I couldn’t stop much during the glue up. We cut the veneers down to fit and just overhang the edges of the door. We have to perfectly align them, and then we put blue tape to hold them in place. The photo shows the start of taping, but we run tape all down the inside edges. This keeps the veneer in place, and also keeps squeeze out to a minimum on the inside profile.
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Ugh, I can’t rotate the photos. Turn your head sideways.
We put a piece of scrap 1/2” ply or OSB in the middle top and bottom or else the vacuum press will crush the plywood panel in the middle. This allows it to be supported and also allows the platen to lay flat on the door. The platen is a piece of MDF cut to size and rounded on the edges to keep it from digging in to the vacuum bag. It also helps spread the load evenly over the veneers. This door was a bit bigger than the others, so the platen barely fit. We taped cardboard on the edge to prevent the veneer from digging into the bag. In the photo, you can see the veneer sticking out before we taped on the cardboard. We leave the veneer long by 1/2” or so and after gluing we trim it. We should have used a different platen- this is not how it’s supposed to be, but it was too late when we realized it, so we just taped on cardboard to protect the edge from digging in to the bag. The cardboard forms to the door and we should still get good pressure on that bit sticking out.
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It all goes in the vacuum bag and stays for 2 hours or so. We just turned it off and left this one overnight since we were done for the day.
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Warren, are you applying veneer to the assembled door after it's glued up?
John
Warren was helping orient the pictures for me. Thanks Warren.
The original post was about building new doors, but someone showed interest in the restoration of old doors. The project has two phases: one was to restore old doors, as required by Historic Preservation. Any door that could be fixed had the veneers replaced. The doors that couldn’t be fixed we made all new doors to match the original. In the above photos we are taking one of the original doors and redoing the veneers, so for these doors we are putting the veneer on the old door. We do this as one whole door- so, yes, the door is being reveneered as a whole door.
For the new doors, we do the veneer before the door is assembled. For those doors the veneer goes on the rails and stiles before they go through the shaper and before they are assembled.
Sorry for the confusion. It’s all one project for the same building, but two parts- (1) restoring old doors by replacing the veneer, and (2) making new doors that match the old ones for rooms where old doors were either too badly damaged or doors were added that were not there before.
Thanks for explaining that, Malcolm. I forgot that you were repairing the existing doors, too. Putting the veneer on over the door seems like about the only practical way to go about it.
John
Someone has to say something about those original stave cores, that is wild. Looks like a bunch of kindling they glued up. And those are getting re-veneered and put back in service? Was there a line of determination that “this is way too bad, we’re replacing it” or everything not rot was kept?
I Have run into the old stave core doors before. They are pretty rough. We just did some work on a local historic building. The door in the picture is the old door setting on top of the new one we built. The staves all telegraphed through and cracked the veneer. This store door was fairly protected. Another door was right out in the weather built of solid pine. The good old pine. It was actually in better condition than the veneered door. Both over 100 years old though. I built the new ones out of 2 1/4” thick Sipo.
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You would be amazed how strict Historical Preservation (the entity) has been on what can and can’t be replaced. They wanted us to just patch up the veneer. We did a sample to show them it would look like a patchwork quilt and cost three times the labor to just strip and redo the veneer. We are actually only doing the rail or stile that needs new veneer. This one needed all of them. There were many that needed one, two, or three veneers.
Also crazy- anywhere they added a wall, they could not use the same moulding profile. They had to use just a square moulding with no routed edge. We made the replica mouldings for them (for the existing walls where mouldings were missing or damaged.). I did a site visit and asked why they butted one of our mouldings up to a plain one. They said that’s where they changed the wall, and Historical Preservation would not allow them to extend the original moulding.
We did another project where they wouldn’t let them move an original door to a new location. They had to make a new door. That is NOT preserving history!!!! It’s crazy. I’m not usually one to cry about the “gummint” ruining things, but this is one time where I will.
Edit to add: for many doors I slathered the gaps with thickened epoxy on my own dime because I just couldn’t let it go. In fact, on most of them I did, and didn’t bill for the cost other than the labor, which was nominal.
Malcolm, Are you dealing with Preservation Virginia or an architect who wants to make sure his client gets the tax credits? Sounds to me like the latter.
Thankfully, I deal with Preservation NC much more than Preservation Virginia, but what dealings I've had with Preservation Virginia were nothing more than pleasant and reasonable. I can't say the same when there was an architect between us.