Cordless Drills (Festool 15.6 CE?)

Wood Magazine just did a cordless drill evaluation which is unusually good timing since my last Ryobi 14.4 battery quit this weekend. This was my second Ryobi and it served me well for 4 years of pretty heavy use in the woodworking shop. I wouldn't want to use it on the jobsite every day, but I only paid $70 for it. My philisophy has been to just buy the whole kit because I can get a new drill, two batteries and charger for $70 and one battery cost $38.

I haven't actually decided to bite the bullet and move up to a higher priced drill, but I am looking hard at the Dewalt, Milwaukee and Panasonic. I can't help but wonder how the Festool drill received a top tool award when it finished 7th in battery life, 12th in chuck holding ability, 6th in torque, middle of the road in charge time and cost $375, $135 more than the next most expensive drill. The other two top tools, the Dewalt and Panasonic, finished very high in all categories. The Panasonic was 1st and Dewalt 4th in run time. The Dewalt was 3rd in torque and 1st in chuck holding capability. The Panasonic was 4th in chuck holding. What makes the Festool so good?

Hi Dennis,

first let me say that I haven't read the review and if it's not available online I can't do that. But let me add a few thoughts/questions:
- Was torque actually tested or did they just take the factory numbers?
- I wonder how chuck holding ability is defined? I've been using a Festool CDD (with the same chuck as I assume) for more than two years and definitely think it's a good one.
- Battery life is one of those extremely sensitive points and IMO it depends a lot on the type of usage. For example, some batteries give last less per charge but can be recharged more often. Personally, I tend to stay away from NiMH batteries on cordless tools.

I found two reviews which explain some advantages of the Festool drills:
Review1
Review2

Regards,

Christian

After reading the article, I think the testers liked the "swiss army knife" chuck. IMO, it costs too much for what you get.

I would be hard put to decide between the DeWalt or the Panasonic. I would lean toward the DeWalt based upon good experience with my current DeWalt 12V drill. Besides the batteries can be charged in the back of my DeWalt shop radio :)

Dennis,

I was also surprised by the "top tool" rating Festool received, despite having a larger battery, it's performance was middle of the pack. I can see the extra chucks as an advantage but for the price difference you can buy a nice Milwaukee or DeWalt right angle drill. I've used a DeWalt 18v for years and it has done everything I've ever asked and without fuss. I would not hesitate to buy again, I also have a Makita M-Force 12 volt that works well for most woodworking applications, and has a slick drill/drive switch and is very capable. Most of the drills did fairly well, you might be better off finding what fits well in your hand or often there are very good sales on cordless tools. The latest Tool Crib catalog has a light duty Panasonic 12v for $50.

John

Christian,

They used the torque numbers supplied by the manufacturer, then verified those numbers by driving lag bolts of different diameters. They said the stated torque was an accurate indicator of how well they drove the lag screws. The higher stated torque, the easier the drill drove the bolts.

To test the drill's ability to hold a bit securely in the chuck, they cut off the threaded portion of a bolt and chucked it in the drill. They used a torque wrench to turn the bolt and measured the amount of torque required to make the bolt slip in the chuck.

I agree with you about batteries. You can't tell how long they will last just by looking at the label. The charge time for most batteries was between 45 and 70 minutes. A few of the lower priced batteries took over 90 minutes.

It is hard to appreciate the versatility of the Festool until you have used it and experienced the problem solving capabilities. If you don't see any value in the accessories, then I would recommend you pass on the brand. I have the 12v version and love it. It is not the drill I would use for driving a ton of deck screws or drill 1/2" holes in concrete but it does the things it was designed to do very, very well. And, I think those things are about 95% of what we expect to do with any cordless drill. Jobs like cabinet installs, for example. As far as the battery life goes, what do I really care if the Panasonic drills 12% more screws when the NiMh isn't going to hold as many charges before it need to be replaced? As far as torque goes, their chart is misleading. All the drills from Festool up performed the same test to satisfaction. Festool just happened to have the lowest manufacturer's rating of the group that were fully successful in the test. Interestingly, six drills that did not, had higher manufacturer torque ratings than Festool but performed less satisfactorily. I feel I have all the torque I need in a cordless and mine is the 12V. Chuck slippage has not been an issue for me either, and I have used it in some pretty high torque situations. Generally what we get in these tests are ratings based on measureables that really don't reflect on how our tools are used. To Wood's credit, they factored in some subjective items. Hence the heading, "These are the drills we'd want in our shop."
Greg

Dennis,

IMO its size, flexability and quality that are the TDK's most impressive attributes. When using the drill I find myself switching chucks quite often. Those who've held or used a Festool tool will know what I mean when I say they just exude the look and feel of quality. Their retail and service network is also outstanding and very personal. Now whether or not that's worth and extra $135 to someone is purely an individual determination. I think I can say with some certainty that if you buy one you wont feel gypped when you get it home, but that's not to say that for some people they wouldnt be better served buying a less expensive tool and using the saved money for something else.

Bill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ken Garlock

After reading the article, I think the testers liked the "swiss army knife" chuck. IMO, it costs too much for what you get.

I would be hard put to decide between the DeWalt or the Panasonic. I would lean toward the DeWalt based upon good experience with my current DeWalt 12V drill. Besides the batteries can be charged in the back of my DeWalt shop radio :)

---

I couldn't agree with you more when you say "it costs too much for what you get". I'm quite sure it is a fine tool. It has to be. No one could get away with charging that much for a tool that is mediocre.

Hi folks,

basically, I agree on what Greg wrote. As good cordless drills are rather cheap in the USA you’re probably better off buying a different drill. But if you think you could appreciate the Festool’s compact size, its unique chucks and excellent attachment I think it’s worth its price. As far as I know today Festool is the only company that offers an eccentric attachment. Of course, you don’t need this attachment every day but I bet you’ll love it in those difficult situations we all face from time to time.

I don’t deny that a good 18 V drill might provide more power than a Festool but I always wonder when an average hobbyist or cabinetmaker should need such a heavy tool. One reason (apart from the fact that they are cordless) why I like cordless drills is that the are usually smaller and lighter than many corded drills.

Thanks for the information regarding the testing process. As far as I know there’s no binding toque testing technique. This means that the numbers offered by companies are usually not comparable. Another aspect which should be considered is what we call “harter und weicher Schraubfall” in German. This describes the different increase of torque depending on the material used. For example, the max. torque is usually a lot higher when driving screws in metal than when driving screws in wood.

Regards,

Christian

I think my biggest question concerning the tests performed is the results of the chuck test. I now own two Festool TDD's and, one of the reasons I got a second one is because I was sick to death of dealing with possibly the worst chuck known to mankind on the 18v C-man I have. Probably 95% of the time, when I would chuck up a regular bit (not hex shank) on the C-man to drill a hole, I would end up getting the Festool, remove whatever bit was currently in it and then chuck up the bit, which was still sitting in the wood, left by the C-man! At best, that's very awkward to do and I know I wouldn't be able to torque the chuck up as well as one normally would, but it always is able to remove the stuck bit! :) BTW, when you need to use it, the eccentric chuck simply can't be beat!:D :cool:

As far as the chuck slipping, you're right, there's nothing more annoying when using a drill.

But what is good enough? The 15.6v TDK is rated for a max bit size in wood of 1 3/8". If you stick with that, the TDK chuck (FastFix) is not going to slip since it was able to swing a 2" bit without slipping in the Wood tests.

Remember that Festool sells many different drills in Europe. These two TDK model were picked out of their lineup based on a market survey of what woodworkers wanted in a drill. There was no intension for either the 12 or 15.6v drills to supplant an 18v drill.

Another iteresting point in that issue of Wood was their assertion in an article on batteries that there was no such thing as NiCd "memory". Personally I perfer NiMh because there is no "memory" effect with that type of battery. In a recent internet search I did researching the different types of batteries everything I found still talked about NiCd "memory" as well as a problem when deep discharging. I wonder where they got their info from??

Festool: 3 year warranty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John Weber

(snipped)

The latest Tool Crib catalog has a light duty Panasonic 12v for $50.

John

---

John,

FWIW, from what I have read, anecdotally (sp) at least, the emphasis should be on light duty. This is, apparently, a hollow version of their top-of-the-line drill. At least that is something I don't believe we will ever see from Festool: a bait-and-switch approach to marketing.

Greg

Hi folks,

I think batteries can be some kind of „touchy“ subject but here’s what I found out during my researches.
Advantages of NiCd technology (compared to NiMH):
- Less inner resistance, this means they don’t lose as much voltage under heavy load
- As a result they can be charged and discharged with rather high currents
- Low self-discharge-rate, thus there are less troubles when batteries are only used occasionally
- No problems under low temperatures
- Many NiCd batteries can be recharged more often if a good charger is used so generally, they last longer
- They are widely deep discharge resistant.

Don’t get me wrong, first I’m not an expert, I only try to collect as much information as possible. I’m not saying that NiMH batteries are always inferior but according to the information I could collect I can hardly see any advantages for cordless tools apart from the fact that NiMH batteries often have slightly more capacity and less weight.
I never faced a problem with this “famous” memory effect and I wonder if it can be noticed if modern chargers such as the Festool are used.

Regards,

Christian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg Mann

John,

FWIW, from what I have read, anecdotally (sp) at least, the emphasis should be on light duty. This is, apparently, a hollow version of their top-of-the-line drill. At least that is something I don't believe we will ever see from Festool: a bait-and-switch approach to marketing.

Greg

---

This is probably true. Anyway, if someone thinks he doesn't necessarily need the newest stuff check out Festool's close out deal on the 12 V TDD cordless drill. Not as compact and modern as the TDK but it can be used with all different chucks (Centrotec, eccentric, right angle and the standard FastFix).

Regards,

Christian