I have very limited space in my shop. Can I use a 'Shop Vac'...you know one of those wet/dry jobs that Sears et al sell for this?
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I have very limited space in my shop. Can I use a 'Shop Vac'...you know one of those wet/dry jobs that Sears et al sell for this?
I'll be following this post because I have the same space limitations. I use a Sears shop vac but it doesn't help very much and it's a pia to drag it around to the different machines. I usually end up using it to vaccum up the mess after I get through.
The short answer is "yes."
The longer answer is that a shop vac can only do so much before you start losing your mind.
Typical shop vacs are very noisy, don't have "tool triggers," and tend to spew a lot of fine dust in the air. That said, you can certainly get by with one for smaller tools like sanders and routers. You "can" connect it to your larger tools (tablesaw, jointer, etc.), but it will fill up fast and you'll have to empty it frequently. They also don't offer the CFM of larger dust collectors.
For what it's worth, you need a shop vac regardless of what type of dust collector you choose even if it's just for cleaning up around the shop. But for all practical purposes, you should get at least a 1HP dust collector, too. They can be had for as little as $200. You'll probably find it most convenient to use the shop vac for smaller tools and the big dust collector for your larger machines. If you want to get really fancy, you can also hook up a remote control to your big dust collector and a tool trigger for your regular shop vac for relatively short money.
Good luck!
Jason
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Murray
A complete shop duxst collection system requires a shop vac and a larger dust collector you can get by with a shop vac but it is a PITA.
1.If you want to use a shop vac you need to get a dust deputy (oneida air)or a Clearview mini cyclone otherwise the filters will plug up very fast and you lose suction.
2. You can then get a good filter for your shop vac so you are not just blowing dust around.
The Mini cyclone will remove almost all of the dust particles before they clog your filter and you lose suction.
You can mount the min cyclone on a larger container so you do not have to empty it as often.
I have a 3HP cyclone that I use for everything except my hand held router, I use my shop vac for the router and to do shop clean up I have run some 2 inc pvc around my shop so I do not have to drag the shop vac around.
The problem is that for the shop vac solution to work it has to be a REALLY good shop vac in the first place; lots of power, good filters, lots of container space. Even a really good shop vac will clog almost instantly and fill up just a little slower than that when hooked up to a tool throwing dust and chips.
In order to get around that you need a mini cyclone as Ed mentioned. Lee Valley sells a few different sized ones http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...82&cat=1,42401 The dust coming out the back of even a good vac is still a problem but they sell muffler attachments for noise and extra filtering that will stop most of that and you can purchase outlet switches that will turn on the vac when the tool is turned on. You will also need extra hose to pass from the lid to the tool. All together though you've spent the same if not more than you would have on a small portable dust collector, and taken up more space and added more hassle to moving it about.
I have similar situation to what it sounds like yours is in terms of space - every square inch counts and if possible; everything in the shop should be doing at least two jobs. I ended up purchasing two blowers I found at a Grossman's for $20 and one of the lids from Lee Valley. I built a cart based on an idea from a shop built HVLP turbine I'm using and it serves even the planer very well and needs to be emptied about half as often as on of the 1hp dust collectors. (experimented with my neighbors just to see.)Plus I have a nice wheel around working surface present no matter what tool I'm working at. I had built it kind from the hip (I know bad woodworker, bad woodworker) but I could throw some sketchup plans to gether if you want.
Jerry,
I need to apologize for being so long winded on this, but I truly want to help you through this decision making process. I have been there, and am still working the kinks out.
For your reference, My "Shop" is a flexible space in my garage, meaning the show grows and shrinks depending on what is being stored in the garage. I am currently squeezed into 10' x 12' with my dust collection tucked into an additional 2' x 5' 4" "nook" in the back corner of the garage.
I am not sure how limited on space you are, but I can say that I have found through experience, that you will need BOTH a wet / dry vac setup, AND a true dust collector.
If you take hose to the individual machine, one of those 1HP portable machines fitted with a 1 micron filtration bag will go a LONG way. I have never seen a 1 micron bag for them though... If you call around, I am pretty sure you can find decent bags for them, but most of them come with VERY porous 20 - 30 micron bags...
I started out with a "Shop Vac Hangup". The blue one from Lowes because I was, well dumb. I was only looking at the name brand and the fact that the thing hung from the wall. At the time I didn't know well enough to know to look for the 2.5" hose, and that I needed a stronger motor etc... I got rid of it QUICK... If I had it to do over again, I might consider a "Shop Vac Hangup Pro". That model seems to have a stronger motor, and is fitted with a 2.5" hose port, but has the goofy reduced 1.25" hose. I would replace that with the 2.5" hose...
I came across a good sale on a Ridgid 12 gallon Wet / Dry vac. I checked the reviews, and even talked to a couple of neighbors that are remodeling contractors, and everything I read was good, HD had a cheap sale. I got the HEPA filter with it as I was starting to learn about just how dangerous the really fine dust is... This worked well for a VERY short period of time... (keep reading...)
Without a cyclone separator, the filter in the vac plugged up QUICKLY. I mean within an hour... So the search for cyclone separators was on...
I stumbled accross Phil Thien's Cyclone Separator / Baffle design on a thread on BT3Central, and found that was what I wanted to do. So my firt Thien Cyclone wa built around a 20 gallon galvanized trash can. Plugging filter problem solved. (I haven't had a plugged filter in over 8 months).
Having said that, The vac, and separator simply live too far away from my planer. I had to tape all the seams on my Shop Vac Sawdust Collection System components to prevent leaks. Shop Vac suggests gluing the system together. This is problematic in that the system would be VERY difficult to clean out, and it DOES plug up fairly regularly when using the planer or jointer. Again, too far away from the collection system. If I was within the reach of a standard vac hose, no problem... And a LOT of guys do just that, move the vac, separator to within easy reach of the tool with a standard hose.
The biggest problems I had using shop vac based DC are collection from the table saw as it has 3 ports, and the shop vac simply can't keep up. Likewise the band saw needs collection from the upper blade guide, and lower wheel guard... Simply put it wasn't up to the task...
I had been researching dust collectors for quite a while, and had seen a couple of older guys I had known that were using the older model HF 2HP dust collector. I knew I wanted to plumb the shop for dust collection, had I wanted to go tool to tool I would have gone with the 1HP portables like the HF, or the Rockler fitted with a 1 Micron bag. But I went with the HF 2HP DC (new model) fitted with a Wynn spun bond poly filter, and a Thien baffle in the inlet ring. I am using 4" S&D to self cleaning blast gates, and Y fittings to split the line to the 2 lower ports on the table saw (the shop vac services the blade guard), and a Y fitting that splits the line going to the band saw. The Y fittings are from Lee Valley if I recall correctly, and are 4" through with a 2.5" branch.
My overall design for my dust collection and shop in the garage is intended to be moved into an as yet built 12x16 Gambrel Roof mini barn. (stupid economy!) and with some good measurement and modeling I have a good idea how to make it all fit in without making me claustrophobic. Like I mention above, I am currently in about 10x12 and am happy as a clam with that space. But then again, I tend to wheel the table saw and miter saw into the driveway for large work pieces.
My last piece of the dust collection / air cleaning puzzle is an old throwaway box fan with a 20x20 allergen filter duct taped to the intake side as a makeshift air scrubber.
I hope this has been helpful, and shows you that a complete dust collection system can fit in a relatively small shop, and on a smallish budget. No I did not go ULTRA cheap, but I was watching my pennies, and I still ran over $1K for everything involved start to finish... And I honestly do not think I overspent or wasted any money in the process.
Dave thanks for the detailed thought.
When I first started putting this shop together I had NO idea that dust would become an issue...now I see it as one of those things that on the initial planning get overlooked.
I'm in need of a shop vac and this weekend I'll go to Borg and get a Rigid wet/dry. I'm alos going to make the mod for a 5 gal bucket collector and will add an allergan filter to a box fan that I use for air circulation.
This will give me a start and i'll make changes from there.
David I just picked up the HF DC you have, is your Thien baffle in the inlet ring of the DC or your separator??? Can you post a couple of pics?? Thanks Pat
I saw this but I have no idea just how good it works. I have a DIY separator unit along with a Ridgid shop vac and the combination works great. But the mobility of the two units is a pain. I finally broke down and picked up a JET 1100 this week. Also short on space I plane on storing it outside.
Check out their Cobra system too.
http://www.oneida-air.com/gorilla_vac.php
I'm in the final stages of building my Thien baffle. I should have it ready to go by this weekend.
Inlet ring. I needed the floor space for the shop vac / Thien separator stack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat O'malley
i tried doing going without a DC and it was a big mistake just ended up buying a DC too. now shopvac just sits and waits to pick up the floors and thats all it does. i would recommend these 2 items for an alternitave( not the exact models though.)
http://www.woodcraft.com/product.asp...&FamilyID=1956
or even smaller
http://steelcitytoolworks.com/produc...y=5&tool=65115
they are the same size if not smaller than most shop-vacs