Table Saw alignment

I followed Keith Oulette and checked out my run-out. I had .010 from front to back. I do have some issues but wasn't sure if .010 was enough to cause that.
When I rip long wood to 45, it pinches the end of the cut, so I have to have extra wood then trim to fit after ripping. Also, I get blade grooves in everything. I have been having all my blades sharpened by the same company, they claim a blade they sharpen will cut better than a new blade, but I am not too sure about that. Any thoughts about what causes these issues?

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Originally Posted by Rick Lucrezi

When I rip long wood to 45, it pinches the end of the cut, so I have to have extra wood then trim to fit after ripping. Also, I get blade grooves in everything.

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Is that 45 Degrees?

If so then it is possible that the top surface is not on plane relative to the blade. On a 90 degree cut, you will not notice this, and then as the blade is tilted, it becomes more and more noticeable as the tilt is increased.

The tops are sometimes shimmed to accomplish this in-plane setup to the blade, but the top is removed, and the shims, which look like regular washers, are placed back on the wrong corners, and then things get wacky real fast.

Try measuring the distance from the fence to the front of the blade, and then the back of the blade. Do this for both 90 degrees and then 45 degrees, and all the measurements should be equal both front and back.

0.010 on the blade is too much misalignment. That is roughly the same as 3 thicknesses of paper, which will certainly leave teeth marks on rip cuts.

0.010" front to rear on the fence is also a bit much, particularly if the fence angles toward the blade.

Please provide more information on the 45 cuts and what is happening. Did you check teh blade alignment to the miter slot and the fence alignment to the same miter slot? Is this a rip cut where the edge of the board is being ripped to 45 degree angle? On which side of the blade is the burning and teeth marks occuring? Where is your fence in relation to the blade? Is you blade left tilt or right?

I am not sure that this is too much. SawStop, both cabinet and construction types, both recited this number as a maximum allowable.
From SS manual - "The SawStop Contractor saw has the same specification for blade-to-miter slot parallelism as the SawStop Industrial Cabinet Saw,
namely 0.010” maximum. "
Rick, you did not mention what kind of table saw do you have. But on most of them you can adjust blade runout working with front/rear trunnion bracket mounting bolts.

Ed.

Rick, if you have a saw that has tubes going from the fount to the back trunnion. They are twisted. lay something flat on top of the tubes, if it rocks the tubes need adjustment. Dale

First I'd like to clarify. I think you are saying that you have 100th of an inch of deviation from front to back of your fence. I am not sure in relation to what; miter slot or blade. You don't mention the type of saw. Your problems could definitly be symptoms of alignment issues (tooth marks, pinching, irregular results).

A lot of peope have trouble with alignment but it is really just a matter of being patient, consistent and diligent in your process. You also need to know what is the best you are going to get and try not to kill yourself getting better.

Your .01 is 10 times what I would try for so, yes, that's an issue (for me anyway). I am very surprised it is mentioned that this is Saw Stop's tolerance for blade to miter slot. That would mean they are accepting of .01" from the front of the blade to the back(?). In their defense, Steel City will tolerate .008" of deviation across their tops which is definitly noticable.

Contractor saws are prone to misalignment at angles even when well tuned at 90*. Unless it is a VERY good contractor saw (and they do make them), the weight of the motor causes issues when tilted. If you have a hybrid/cab-saw, you probably don't have that issue.

In it's essence, assuming acceptable arbor runout and such, alignment kinda goes like this:
- align your blade to be 90* perpendicular to the saws table top.
- align the blade by adjusting the trunnions or table (depending on the saws design) to be parallel to the right miter slot.
- align the fence to this same miter slot.
Your now all set for 90* cuts. Angle cuts should also be fine if your table is properly shimmed and your trunnions can handle the weight shift of the motor.

The Sawstop manual for the cabinet ( industrial and professional ) says that their spec for within tolerance is .002 . I have the professional cabinet saw and adjusted it to less than .002 in about 10 minutes ( there are opposing set screws on the left and right side at the rear of the table - you turn one in and the other out and the table moves in a very predictable amount.) You might want to read that section of the manual - it starts on p 46 of the manual for the cabinet saw, because it explains several tests you need to do to verify you are observing alignment of the slot to the blade, not a problem with the blade or arbor runout, and they would apply no matter what saw you have. They also suggest using a test indicator ( though they refer to it as a dial indicator ) with a resolution of .0005 or better to perform the test - adjustment and the manual also describes how to make a platform for the indicator. I don't think you need a test indicator, but I agree that the indicator resolution of .0005 or better would make the testing/ adjustment more reliable

Sorry about not getting back, been putting in very long days. 14 hours yesterday. Any way, I have a 70s vintage unisaw with the beismeyer. The .010 is the runout on the fence measurement, and it is wider at the end of the cut. I looked under the table and there are washers under one corner between the table and the base. Interestingly, there is a gap on another corner. It looks like I need to start from scratch with this saw. I checked the numbers at the miter slot but since the play was so much I felt it to be inaccurate, I realized that running the miter would produce a varying cut any way because of the play in the slot. I am really trying for as close to perfect as I can with as little time as possible and it seems I can only do as good as my tools. I have spent hours adjusting my Bosch 12 in DBCM and it has enough blade wobble that "perfect cuts" are impossible. I am also doing tile in 4 bathrooms in a house that is listed for 1.5mil right now, the work has to be absolutely perfect and the MK tile saw wont cut a straight line to save my life. Its like the whole world is crooked.:(

Rick, I am not sure that I understand you. The best way to do it is to align the miter slot to the blade, then align the fence to the blade ( or the miter slot ). To align the slot to the blade, you can make a wooden bar that fits the slot very snugly so that it just barely moves - screw a peice of wood onto the bar that is bigger than your dial indicator, then screw a piece of metal onto the wood and attach your magnetic base for a dial indicator - that should get you a fairly accurate reading . Then put the indicator at the front of the blade, (and mark the spot on the blade with a sharpie ) then rotate the blade so that same spot is now toward the rear of the table and slide the indicator back until it rests at the same spot. If the readings are within .002, you are done, if not, you loosen the nuts and slide the table one way or the other until you get within specs. Once that is done, you can do the same with the fence ( holding the indicator to the fence - though most recommend that the fence fall away from the rear of the blade by a few thousands to reduce kickback.) Note that this is for the 90 degree cuts. John White's book, Care and Repair of Shop Machines, covers most of the above using simple wooden jigs to hold the indicator. Once you have that sorted, you tilt to 45 degrees and do the same test of the miter slot. If it is out by more than .002 you adjust it with shims - I suggest you post back and someone will explain how that is done on your saw.

Thanks Barry, goning to make time tommorow night. I have to use it for more trim and want better results. I have some face frames to build also and realy going for a nice look, but dont have time to joint and cut every piece.