Hand-cranked grinder - who can form new abrasive on it's wheel?

My dad came across this hand-cranked grinder from a relative's place as they were cleaning it out. Very cool looking with open gear set up.

I hadn't ever seen a grinding wheel like this. It has a spoked metal center and the abrasive is just a 3/4" layer formed around the outside of that. Unfortunately, the abrasive had been cracked and broken off of the wheel at some point. We still have some of the pieces but not all of it.



In the photos the rustier wheel with the little nubs on it is the grinding wheel. While we could replace it with a more modern wheel that is all abrasive, I would much rather be get new abrasive put on the old wheel. That spoked wheel is just to cool to not use.



So - does anyone have any ideas on where/how to get a new set of abrasive formed onto that wheel? I googled a bit and couldn't find anyone that does it or even a description of a home-brew way. (Well there was a person or two who theorized they could use grit mixed with portland to cast a new wheel for something like a foot-powered wheel - but no one said that they had actually done it).

I found one person that said that forming new abrasive on an iron wheel disappeared in the 60's in favor of the wheels we have today. So maybe there is someone somewhere who keeps that old machine in their basement????


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What about attaching a leather belt? Use it with or without compound. A hand-powered strop.

Regards from Perth

Derek

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Originally Posted by Derek Cohen

What about attaching a leather belt? Use it with or without compound. A hand-powered strop.

Regards from Perth

Derek

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My thought was Pressure Sensitive Adhesive backed sanding strips.

You might be able to find an old wheel, but expect collector prices.

A home brew cast abrasive wheel would have me in fear of grinding wheel self disassembly.

jtk

In my opinion what you are asking is an astronomical feat, although you are free to ask. If it were mine I would clean it up and display it as is and not plan on using it. It is a very nice piece. If you know the maker etc. you may be able to find one on ebay for parts.

I go back way beyond the 60's,and never saw anything like that in vogue!! We had ordinary gray grinding wheels just like the cheap ones we have today. The better white ones came along in the 70's. At least I did not see better wheels available for home shops before then. I have dozens of old wheels from the 40's in my shop.

By the way,grinding wheels have a limited shelf life: They get more brittle over the years,and should not be used on high speed machines.

I agree that a strip of PSA bonded abrasive might be the most practical approach. But,that belt would not last very long at all. You'd be re attaching new belts all the time.

This tool is far from being 18th. C.,but in the 18th. C.,they did have cutler's grinding wheels made of wood. They had leather belts attached,and abrasives were glued to the belts. Not very effective,I'm sure. Possibly just for polishing blades.

I must agree that restoring the grinder and just exhibiting it might be the best approach. I have never seen anything like it.

I would take a small piece of the abrasive and soak it in water. That might tell you if it is hide or fish glue by the smell and
with the abrasive clean you might be able to identify it. Might be something used for shoe repair to even out half soles.
So many of those old devises were sold with maintenance parts that seemed too extravagant,so the owner might have
subsequently even glued some sand on a scrap of leather.

Go ahead and make one. Since it is hand cranked It doesn't have to be able to handle too much in the way of RPM's. A hand drill powered grout, concrete or paint mixer is the most important tool for this, sorry to go all electric on you. You can mix it other ways, but this is the easy path.

If you buy a large bag of lapidary grit, fast setting cement(fast is finer, white is typically better graded) and a bag of concrete reinforcement fibers, you have what you need.

Make a form based on the old wheel and the diameter you need it to be. Use some paste wax on the form so it will release the finished wheel more easily. Once you have the form, fill it with grit to measure.

Put the grit in a 5 gallon bucket and mark the level. Sift and shake dry cement in until the level mark is covered. Now you have just a bit more cement than is needed to make dense grit filled concrete.

Wet the fibers by putting a hand full in a bottle with a touch of hand dish washing liquid and enough water to shake it around. A small amount of soap may actually improve the cement by air entrainment.

Add water to the mix, you want the mix to be wet, cement bonding is a chemical reaction that needs water. You do not want excess water in this, so what you are looking for is cement that will hold a mark. Add the fibers and mix really well.

Fill the form so there are no voids. Cover with plastic so it does not dry out. Cement does not dry to set, wet cement sets. Wait a few weeks so the cure is good.

Now all you have to do is get the form off the wheel and true the wheel.

Bob

Bob Strawn, every once in a while I am just blown away by the obscure questions one can get answered here. This is one of those times. Thanks for the post.

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Originally Posted by Steve Voigt

Bob Strawn, every once in a while I am just blown away by the obscure questions one can get answered here. This is one of those times. Thanks for the post.

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Always glad to inspire the already creative!
Here are a few ideas on the use of cement to clink around with while planning. Aggressive wheels need empty space. Empty space makes for a weaker wheel. Trade offs happen. Other glues than cement can be used. Adding fine pearlite will make a lighter and more porous wheel.

If you make one without any grit at all, you have a very soft 325 or slightly higher ansi. (some particles will range up to 45 microns) Fast cement will have a predominance of finer particles, 1 micron takes about a day to set, 10 microns take about a month. For grinding purpose though, it is the big particles that stick out and make the scratches. Fast setting can still have big particles as long as they are not predominant. Since the particle are soft compared to a good abrasive grit, they will tend to sheer down and act as a much higher and slower grit fairly quickly.

Whetstones can also be made by these methods. One would hope that the professionally made ones are better than what you would make at home. Only one way to really know. :)


Bob

Thanks much Bob!!!

Have you actually made a sharpening stone using this method? I always have portland around and happen to have some fiber too so all I need is to make a mold and get some grit to try it out.

I agree that this is so low speed I'm not worried about it exploding like I am when using a powered grinder. A wheel exploding at 3600RPM is a shorts cleaning moment at best.

Thanks much!

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Originally Posted by Dan Oelke

Thanks much Bob!!!

Have you actually made a sharpening stone using this method? I always have portland around and happen to have some fiber too so all I need is to make a mold and get some grit to try it out.

I agree that this is so low speed I'm not worried about it exploding like I am when using a powered grinder. A wheel exploding at 3600RPM is a shorts cleaning moment at best.

Thanks much!

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I have not made one in wheel form. I made a really nice one using dowels to make the grooves for taking nicks out of gouges. At one time I got 50 lbs of silicon carbide sand blasting grit so I had a bit to play with. When I was making a few stepping stones, I had some extra cement, so I did a small experiment. I did not use fibers, but I would if I was making a wheel. It worked fine, but next time I would use aluminum oxide. Silicon carbide is nice and aggressive to start with, but it wears down way too fast.

I think such a wheel is going to be too soft and will also load right up so it will scarcely cut. Real wheels are vitrified under high heat,not glued together.

I think the mention of the original in shoe repair may have some credence.

I believe that the Norton company was originally a ceramics house and one of the potters made a wheel better than the ones availible at the time. maybe clay was the binder? maybe you could find a potter to make you one.