Skulker coming out of closet with Mini-Max questions

I've been skulking for awhile now. I've stuck my nose into a couple of threads but have decided to officially come out of the closet. As a short bio: I've been woodworking for about 15 years and am now living in Tucson, Az (a hotbed of many things but not woodworking). I was active in rec.woodworking for several years when I first started, and was one of the original "Galoots" on the Old Tool newsgroup.

I'm quite fortunate in having a spacious shop and a reasonable collection of tools, so I shouldn't be whining. But, for years, I've lusted over those expensive European combination machines. Felder and Knapp are the creme de la creme but Mini-Max has been lurking just below them. They are not only less expensive but include things like the mortising table and mobility device that are extra cost options for the Austrian duo. I got to see, touch and actually cut wood with one (Mini-Max 300 Smart)at the Pomona Woodworking show this spring and I must say I was quite impressed.

I guess my first request is to hear some experiences from people who have lived with these things for awhile. But my other question has to do with available models. The Mini-Max USA websitesite lists: LAB 300 N, 300 Classic, 300 Smart and the 410 Elite. The demonstrator, who said he worked out of LA, told me about a model 350 that they didn't have at the show that had a 14" Planer/Jointer that also used four corner posts for the planer table instead of the single center post. I also visited Eagle Tools booth at Pomona, to look at the Agazzani bandsaws.

When I got back home I double checked the Mini-Max USA website to make sure I didn't miss it, and no there was no model 350. But then I checked the Eagle Tools website and it turns out they sell Mini-Max as well but didn't show any at Pomona (unless they were showing the ones I tried but without identifying themselves as Eagle tools. (Whew that was a mouthful!) Anyway they did list a 300K, 350K and a 410K. Unfortunately they didn't list any prices.

So this gets to the meat of my question: why are people selling a Mini-Max model that Mini-Max USA doen't list? Could there be two importers, or a gray market operation? I'm sure there are some knowledgeable people who can enlighten me.

Thanks to all for a great forum,

John Zimmerman

John

Talking to mini-max rep the other day I mentioned a local machiney seller who use to sell mini-max but has since quit. The mini-max rep told me that mini-max is discontinuing all sellers and are going to direct public sells as laguna has.

I had also talked my local seller who confirmed that and also related a tale where they had a customer sale, placed the order and mini-max took the customer sale for theirself cutting the local seller out.

I suppect eagle just has not dropped the mini-max line from they web page. When I talked to mini-max they did not have E16 bandsaw on their web page but is a valid machine but according to mini-max to new to show in web page. (their words not mine). You would think if a vendor has a new product they would be in hurry to display an image to generate sales.

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Originally Posted by John Zimmerman

I've been skulking for awhile now. I've stuck my nose into a couple of threads but have decided to officially come out of the closet. As a short bio: I've been woodworking for about 15 years and am now living in Tucson, Az (a hotbed of many things but not woodworking). I was active in rec.woodworking for several years when I first started, and was one of the original "Galoots" on the Old Tool newsgroup.

I'm quite fortunate in having a spacious shop and a reasonable collection of tools, so I shouldn't be whining. But, for years, I've lusted over those expensive European combination machines. Felder and Knapp are the creme de la creme but Mini-Max has been lurking just below them. They are not only less expensive but include things like the mortising table and mobility device that are extra cost options for the Austrian duo. I got to see, touch and actually cut wood with one (Mini-Max 300 Smart)at the Pomona Woodworking show this spring and I must say I was quite impressed.

I guess my first request is to hear some experiences from people who have lived with these things for awhile. But my other question has to do with available models. The Mini-Max USA websitesite lists: LAB 300 N, 300 Classic, 300 Smart and the 410 Elite. The demonstrator, who said he worked out of LA, told me about a model 350 that they didn't have at the show that had a 14" Planer/Jointer that also used four corner posts for the planer table instead of the single center post. I also visited Eagle Tools booth at Pomona, to look at the Agazzani bandsaws.

When I got back home I double checked the Mini-Max USA website to make sure I didn't miss it, and no there was no model 350. But then I checked the Eagle Tools website and it turns out they sell Mini-Max as well but didn't show any at Pomona (unless they were showing the ones I tried but without identifying themselves as Eagle tools. (Whew that was a mouthful!) Anyway they did list a 300K, 350K and a 410K. Unfortunately they didn't list any prices.

So this gets to the meat of my question: why are people selling a Mini-Max model that Mini-Max USA doen't list? Could there be two importers, or a gray market operation? I'm sure there are some knowledgeable people who can enlighten me.

Thanks to all for a great forum,

John Zimmerman

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John,
MiniMax-USA is MiniMax here in this country (in Austin, Texas). They are now the only ones you can purchase MM machines from. They are the direct company from Italy. MiniMax machines are made by MiniMax in Italy. Their bandsaws (except for the S45, which is made by MM) are made by Centauro, in Italy, for MM. Eagle Tools use to sell MM when there were dealerships around. They just have not removed them from their website. Since it is now a direct sales company you will get better pricing and better service

They do have a 14" j/p version and it should be the 350. It is not on their website, but they do have it, call MM. I am not going to add fuel to the fire for my other friends but one should not look at MM as step below. The other companies offer other features, options..... but the MM's will perform just as well and better in many areas. There are no real "options" with MM, you simply get "everything". The other companies are all "ala carte".

Good luck with your search and let me know if I can answer any questions.

To clarify one thing relative to Paul's comments...MM offers "what you most need" in the machine package. It is certainly true, for example, that you can greatly customize a Felder way beyond a MM, but at a cost. For some folks, it's worth that added cost based on their needs. For others, it's not.

Also, in many respects, I'm glad that machines like this (Euro combos) are sold in the direct model. They do not sell in enough volume to encourage independent vendors to put the time and money into stocking and supporting them. The direct sales model is better for that, IMHO.

I currently own two MM machines and would buy from them again. (I also wouldn't turn down a Felder if it "fell off the truck" outside my shop for some reason... ;) )

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Originally Posted by John Zimmerman

I've been skulking for awhile now. I've stuck my nose into a couple of threads but have decided to officially come out of the closet. As a short bio: I've been woodworking for about 15 years and am now living in Tucson, Az (a hotbed of many things but not woodworking). I was active in rec.woodworking for several years when I first started, and was one of the original "Galoots" on the Old Tool newsgroup.
<snip>

Thanks to all for a great forum,

John Zimmerman

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John,
Nice to see a fellow Galoot. I too was one of the first few (perhaps not as few as you, but not too far behind...;-). I'v sadly been out of touch for a few years though...

This place has a similar feel.
Cheers,
-Mike

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Originally Posted by Jim Becker

(I also wouldn't turn down a Felder if it "fell off the truck" outside my shop for some reason... ;) )

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Well...depends on what it would cost you to replace what broke!! :eek: :D

:p ;)

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Originally Posted by Chris Padilla

Well...depnds on what it would cost you to replace what broke!!

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Excellent point. But I'll point out that you are a real engineer while I am merely a consultant... ;)

Well, I have a CU350 in my shop. It's a larger platform than the CU300, much closer in size to the 410. It's nice in that you can get a tilting shaper option and have support for a dato blade on the saw. IIRC you can't get that combination with the CU300. If you want to look at the machines that MiniMax in Austin, TX can import then take a look at the MiniMax site in Italy (www.scmgroup.com).

Paul, your neighbour has a hermit crab?!?

;)

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Originally Posted by Nick Mitchell

Paul, your neighbour has a hermit crab?!?

;)

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Nick,
Actually I am not 100% sure. I am only repeating what your dog told! Man he is smart, it must be the water! :p

hi John, Since you are so close why don't you go up to Vegas at the end of the month and catch the big AWFS show. You'll be able to see all the machines and maybe some of those options on the Austrian duo of Felder and Knapp will be what you want.
I have mixed feelings concerning mobility kits on these heavy Felder and Knapp machines which can weigh in at 2500 to 3500lbs. If you have the room, I feel you should forget the mobility kit and place the machine leveled and solid on the floor. When I had the combo Felder j/p and saw/shaper these went into the center of the shop and didn't move. When I got the separate saw and shaper out of necessity I have the F700 shaper on a mobilty kit. It works but in a perfect world the shaper would also be fixed.
take care,
John

Hi John,
Eagle tools used to be a dealer for MM before Mini Max USA came onto the scene, going factory direct out of Austin. The K series (300, 350, 410) is no longer manufactured and if Eagle is listing those machines it may be because they have some older stock still. The CU350 Smart is not listed on the website, but it is available, and becoming more popular recently. Vegas would be a good place to view just about anything you could want to look at as a woodworker.
Hope this helps some.