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Hi, I'm looking at replacing a General 650 table saw with either a Hammer K3 sliding saw or a B3 Winner saw/shaper.
Those of you who own one,
- do you use the tilting spindle on the shaper or would you be satisfied with a fixed spindle?
- I'm thinking of ordering either the 36" or 51" sliding table. As I don't normally use sheet goods, and space is at a premium, will I regret buying the 36" table?
Thanks, Rod.
I went from a Unisaw with the 50" rip capacity to a Laguna Pro 6' Sliding Tablesaw with about 36" of rip capacity. Have not missed the decrease in rip capacity at all, since the sliding table with outrigger is used to break down sheet goods or other larger material. I have only owned mine since March and still getting used to the differences. I never used the full ripping capacity on my old machine; it just became a place to pile up stuff, and made it more of a safety hazard. I had both the old machine and the new one sitting with the right side of the table on the right side side of the shop. This ruled out using a router table on this area.
Let us know what you decide.
I plan to post some notes about my Laguna machine as soon as I figure this picture posting routine out.
Rod,
I assume when you are asking about a 35 or 51 inch slider you are referring to the slider travel not ripping capacity?
If you are talking about slider travel then my response is get the biggest/longest you can afford. What most people do not understand is that unless you are ripping/crosscutting a full 4x8 or 4x10 sheet the saw does not take up that much space and in mosy cases less than a cabinet saw with a 52 inch rip capacity. The only length is the carriage itself (which is generally narrow 12-20 inches depending on the saw) and the only added width is the support table attached to the slider. In all manuf that I know of this support table can slide anywhere on the sliding carriage so it can easily be positioned to where is suits you best.
The beauty of a long carriage if you are not worried about sheetgoods is its ability to perform straight line ripping on long boards. Imagine attaching a 8ft board (after face jointed) to the carriage only and sliding it past the blade. In one slide you have a perfect edge square to your face. Along these same lines you can also create jigs or use the crossfences provided to rip consistant stock to width. The longer the slider the more flexibility you will have.
Another added benefit I have found with a longer slider is being able to add an auxillary router table on the outfeed side so you now have the benefit of using the slider with a router
Hi, for clarification I was wondering about the sliding table length.
I will be ordering the machine with the small rip capacity (31") because I don't need anything larger.
Anyone have good arguments for/against the tilting spindle shaper?
Thanks, Rod.
Rod, I'll toss in an opinion on the tilting spindle. I have one, and while it's not the most commonly used feature, it certainly is a useful option when needed. Last time I used it was to tweak a profile a bit to make the exact molding that I wanted. I could have just bought a new cutter, but being able to tilt the spindle eliminated that cost. Save the money you would have spent on tooling a few times, and you pay for the option.
Another reason to like it might be if you cut chamfers. Those high dollar cutters with the idexible chamfers are moot when you can just tilt the spindle with the standard straight tool.
On the other subject, I agree with Paul.
You will regret a 36" sliding table. If you buy too short of a slider, the crosscut fence will have to be removed to do all but narrow ripping, that would get old real quick.
I cant say it any better than Paul, get as long a slider as you can possibly afford or fit in your space. Straight lining boards on a slider is safer, faster and more accurate than a jointer.
A 31" rip on these machines is plenty for most work. With a longer slider, you will find ways to do most of your cutting on the left side of the blade ( slider side ) . Good luck with your decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan
Rod,
I have a tilting shaper separate from my slider. While I have only used the tilting feature once or twice it is nice to have just in case. If I had to give up the tilting head vs slider length due to money I would chose to give up the shaper tilt.
OK. I'm straight now. You meant slider length, not ripping capacity. As others have stated, get the longest you can stuff into your shop. Or the limits of your wallet, whichever comes first. I have the 6 foot slider, but it has been real handy for straight-line ripping and cleaning up a rough edge. I plan to fabricate Paul's ripping jig myself real soon. Thanks in advance Paul for the inspiration.
Get the Shaper attachment~!! I didn't, I wish I had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan
Get the Biggest table you can get.Quote:
- I'm thinking of ordering either the 36" or 51" sliding table. As I don't normally use sheet goods, and space is at a premium, will I regret buying the 36" table?
The length will come in handy so very often. sheet goods or not you will use the length. And then when you do rip up some sheet goods ~ ~ ~ ~ it is heaven.
Get the Large outboard adjustable table. BIG difference~!! The accuracy is incredible. Once you set it to square, you'll never have to check angles again. Flip it to some angle and then back to 90-Deg, and you won't feel the need to check 'cause it's always spot on.
Get Scoring if you ever plan to cut a chippy Plywood like Oak.
Get the Dado Spindle.
Get the Hammer three piece Dado it's expensive but worth it. It is a Seven Inch diameter Dado.
Don't buy an 8" dado that's too large and it'll impact the Furniture of the saw.
If you can get a 7" dado elsewhere make sure they price it WITH the Felder hole pattern. Felder will fax you the drawing.
Mobility package You can use 4" poly wheels on a half inch steel shaft with a 1/2" copper pipe sleeve. and make your own J bar or pay their rather stiff price for the J bar and wheels.
The saw does not come with little screw-in-leveler adjustable feet for the front. They may be part of the mobility package, I don't know I made my own.
It's some metric size bore I had to drill mine out to half inch.
Thanks everyone for your informative replies.
I have decided upon the B3 Winner, so I will have a tilting spindle shaper instead of the fixed spindle shaper I own now.
I've narrowed it down to the following options;
- CSA electrical approval (I live in Canada)
- dado capability
- micro adjustment for rip fence
- scoring saw
- 31" rip capability
- 49" sliding table ( the largest that will fit in my shop)
- 35" crosscut fence with 1650mm extension
- folding feeder mount
- 2 detachable table extensions
I have a Hammer HC308 Feeder on my present shaper, I'll transfer it over before I sell the other shaper.
I will also be adding an Excalibur overarm guard to the saw, the one on my General is for a 10" blade, I'm ordering a 12" one for the Hammer.
Cliff, I haven't ordered the mobility kit because I make my own.
Once again guys, thanks for all the help.
It's kind of sad getting rid of more General equipment, however I'm looking forward to the capabilities of the Hammer, as well as gaining some floor space, which is very important.
Soon my shop will be mostly imported (Hammer, Oneida) where it used to be domestic (General). I guess that's what happens when North American manufacturers don't make any improvements to their equipment for decades, they get left behind. I guess instead of a "Unisaur" I had a "Genesaur"..LOL.
Having a shop in the basement of a townhouse is great from a heating cooling viewpoint, however not so great from a floor space perspective.
Regards, Rod.