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Hello .. Went to the AWFS show and watched a Veneer vacuum press operate.. had a bit of an awakening as to how handy they would be ..
I saw Barth and Martin has one. Basic frame with a table top .. rubber sheet, turn it on and it sucks down tight.. Anyone else make one of these ? I would like one about 30" x 60" .. or 30" x 72" .. not sure whats out there ?
Picture framers use a vacuum press like you describe to mount certain artwork to a backing. They usually use a sheet of glass which is mounted in a frame and the frame lifts, sort of like a horizontal door with the hinges at the back. You put the work on the rubber sheet, close the top, which seals against the rubber sheet, and you turn on the vacuum pump. That pulls the artwork and mounting against the glass while the glue sets.
If that's the kind of press you want, check picture framer's suppliers. I made one from a kit one time. It was pretty easy.
Mike
For me, the problem with that style of vacuum press is the size. It eats a bunch of air space in the shop, even when it is not being used -- which, realistically, is most of the time. A vacuum bag, for me, is much better. Even a big one rolls up and stores in much less space.
Go to www.joewoodworker.com. I built one from his plans and its served me well for years. Ordered the parts, and had an old gast pump. He knows his stuff. He supports you with all the questions and his bags are top notch. go with the better bags they will serve you well.
His prices on veneer is top notch. Had him make me a custom back for bed rails.
https://flic.kr/p/cBfFYd
Check out the Barth VPL line. The legs come off and it stores away easily against a wall. I just ordered their 500V table and plan to use the same pump (upgraded to 8m^3/h)to power the VPL. I saw the massive Barth table at the Martin AWFS booth, but at 20k, it's beyond my budget and would fill my shop.
Thanks Ed .. I did look at the VPL Line on the website.. They would work fine for me .. I too saw the massive Barth table at the Martin Booth .. $20K is too steep for me too .. lol
I'll inquire as to the cost of them .. I have the Felder 300 table, I think the Barth is a better build, but I love the Felder.. use it all the time.. its one of those things you can't believe the price but would never give it up once you have it ..
Please let me know what you learn about the VPL and pricing. I have just begun to study the Barth product lineup as well. I almost bought the Felder 300. After viewing it in person at the Delaware showroom, it looked incredibly useful, but the overall fit and finish wasn't as impressive. I figured I'd wait to see the Barth equivalent at the AWFS show before making a decision. I'm glad I waited, but man could I have saved a lot of money by going with the Felder 300. Good bang for the buck.
Ed, I was impatient and bought the Felder 300 because it was cheaper, when I saw the Barth at the show I was like.. um.. I would have paid more .. lol .. I find that the price fades, but the quality lasts for a long time.. The piston and the build on the Barth .. as well as the finish is better.. I do however use the Felder all the time, I'm turning 50 and my days of carrying heavy stuff around the shop need to be behind me.
One of the reasons I want to buy a table as opposed to making one is quality as well. Just want it to work .
Those tables are pretty slick but I just don't have the room for such a luxury. One day...one day.... :)
For now, the roll up bag works fine.
I have passed on several 5'x12' hot presses that sold for 100 bucks or so, the location in the buildings and rigging situations were horrible. At 15k pounds they get to be tough to move.
Those are great for veneer but huge - and the amount of electricity they would take is significant, I imagine. Also, I'd bet they're three phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Warner
Paul Schurch has one in his shop - it was the first time I saw one in operation.
Mike
Most are used for making plywood and veneer solid core doors. Sweet machines for sure, still regret passing on a few.
Been doing some reading on them .. They can range from a 50" x 50" machine which has only vacuum and no heat, to a monster as described in Darcy's posts. Martin sells the Barth line, I inquired into the VPL .. Felder has a big table which appears to actually be made in Latvia and also sold by Adamik .. Its pricey ..
Seems like you can get rubber or silicone, they stretch the rubber 700% of its standard size over a couple pieces of wood with glue in the middle. From what I understand, if the pump is strong enough, you create a Vacuum of around 29" of water, and the glue boils at 70 degrees .. this causes normal glue to set in about 3 minutes, and your done.
I guess you can boil water in a Vacuum at room temperature.. so this system speeds up the glue time and applies massive pressure, spread out well.
Seems like the height you can stack is an issue.. bigger frame = more height ? I dunno ..
I have room downstairs for one, but am a bit worried about actually getting one down there.. the VPL from Martin / Barth seems way more space sensitive but I would want to know how thick I could go with a smaller frame.
If there are any errors in what I said, feel free to correct me, I'm learning as I go here..
How much does the Felder 300 go for?
i just went through this. i was looking at the barth line, talked to carl at martin and saw the presses at the atlanta show... but decided ultimately to try my luck with the vacupress system. i built a big torsion box with the CNC, and assembled their press using the box as the base. i love it, and use it nearly every day. zero regrets so far, and for ~$1400 or so, seems like a no brainer.
darryl is great to work with, knows his stuff, and i can speak from experience that his frame press kit is money well spent. yeah, i'd love a $25k barth, but the vacupress frame is allowing me to do everything i want to do. beats a bag, hands down.
good luck with your purchase.
---dz
They are great for keeping pizza warm as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Warner
Attachment 364670
Attachment 364672
Now that is funny Joe. Probably thin crust too!
see the big presses as well. I just have a simple bag set up home made with a heavy quality bag. Could you not have one of the table top ones that is hinged on a wall then you lift it up when you need it and it has legs then folds back down on the wall when not in use. That is what I thought to build if I had a flat table one. For stuff ive done so far not all would work with flat. The odd thing rather than a panel is larger and would not fit the table or even the bag so a temp bag set up was made. havent seen the large pro model you guys mention but will look it up.
Here are some frame press kits one of which is 54"x54" http://www.qualityvak.com/frame.html. Vacupress sells several kits and complete units, but larger than you want https://www.vacupress.com/vacupress-...frame-systems/. I set up two of their kits for the shop I used to work for, the hardware is good quality and the company is reliable. Another supplier of various size kits- http://www.vacuum-press.com/table.html.
Like several other posters here I rely on a bag press due to space limitations, but for flat and low profile curved work a frame press is far more convenient.
These might be more in your price range from Veneer Systems. I have no connection but use them for product, especially Unibond 800.
http://www.veneersystems.com/index.p...category/id/8/
I occasionally get asked to glueup specialized veneer panels and have made my own setup on a 4' x 8' table that's been laminated with industrial HPL. The table mainly serves as my main work top. I have a small vacuum pump and bought a 5' x 9' sheet of 30 mil polyurethane thats gets clamped to the tabletop with a simple frame and a series of 2" spring clamps, when I need to do veneer. While simple in approach it works well for small to large projects and you don't have the aggravation of trying to get everything in a bag.
Are you guys talking about veneer presses or mobile work tables?
For veneering, I have a few different bags and a different plattens. If I want to speed things up a bit, I throw an electric blanket on top of the press. As far as a dedicated press system, I would have to do a lot of veneering in a "successful" shop to justify the cost vs. convienance. I have been in many one-man pro shops and have seen 4'x8' bags that are covered w a sheet of plywood which is covered w "stuff". In other words, it seems guys don't really use their veneer systems as much as you think.
Rick, you are too young to be thinking about getting too old��
The Felder is just over $20,000 Canadian .. not exact, I'm sure its cheaper on the East coast as well due to freight .. The big Barth was more..
I wonder about using a vacuum generator vs a pump ? Does anyone have any experience with this ? I have a 5hp Rotary with a 90 gallon tank, it produces a large amount of air at 145 psi.. Its always on .. always available, if a Generator would work, it would reduce the amount of motors in the shop..
What are the downsides to a generator that has access to lots of air ?
I read on one of the sites that the vacuum alone creates a glue setting time of about 40 minutes.. with heat however allow only 5 minutes.. That's a remarkable difference. Is an electric blanket effective ? Would you insulate the underside of the press ?
I like the idea of a frame to work as another clamp.
I appreciate the links to the other frames, I had not found those .. I would actually like a table that flips up on the wall, perhaps I could make it happen myself. 51" x 51" that sits on the wall would be awesome.. Flip it down and use it .. flip it back up .. If the table is rigid enough, I could simply build the wall mount part myself ..
I have several bags and platens and choose the smallest practical. While a frame is attractive I can't justify the space for something I realistically use once a month.
Bill in my case the frame is 2 pcs 96" x 1" and 2 pcs 46" x 1" are stored upright in a corner and are assembled when needed, the poly gets rolled up and put back in the box it was shipped in, not a whole lot of space. Using 2" spring clamps around the perimeter roughly every 4" gives enough sealing against the HPL top and the vacuum pump only cycles every 2 minutes during the drying period. Using Unibond 800 gives a lot of time to work with materials and clamp the edge. Having 100 plus 2" spring clamps for doing solid surface is definite a plus for this system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Adamsen