Identify wood and wood for windows

I'm going to build some windows for our old historic house and want to know what kind of wood a guy used on a previous window for our house - and what wood you all might recommend. I'm not able to get in touch with the guy so have some photos of wood that maybe someone can i.d.

The wood is soft and very lightweight and smells faintly of cedar so I think it is some kind of cedar. This is west coast/Alaska. Our house is right on the coast so is subject to salt. The old windows are beyond saving - I need to make a bit heavier stiles and muntins to support double pane glass and storms. The wood used previously seems to be a very nice VG fir that is probably hard to come by now but I could look for it if recommended. I'm not sure about hardwood but perhaps our National Park Service historic grant people would allow it. I have about 5 windows to build, all divided lite to some degree.

Here's images of wood the guy left behind:
Attachment 257662Attachment 257663Attachment 257664Attachment 257665

I could use this wood again but would be happy to hear your thoughts.

cheers, JD

Old growth douglas fir baby!! Check out those tight rings!! Nice stuff.

Fir again would be fine and shouldn't too hard to locate in your neck of the woods. I would guess those old frames are about 40-50 years old.

Todd

Yes, looks like nice clear fir. It was a favorite for windows and doors for decades ( and still is today) because its lightweight and is so easy to mill and paint.

Thanks guys, will see if I can find any. I need some 8' pieces as the windows are nearly 7'-4" tall.

cheers, Jim

I think it might be western red cedar ,which is not a true cedar. You mention it smells like cedar and is light weight. Old growth fir is heavy. Can't be sure .Whatever it is be sure to remove and discard and sap edges. As much as possible keep the bark side of all pcs toward the exterior.

I think if I were starting from scratch building windows, would consider white oak. It is a wood that would have a lot of life against the weather. If you can install storm windows, they increase the life of windows by multiples.

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Originally Posted by Mel Fulks

I think it might be western red cedar ,which is not a true cedar. You mention it smells like cedar and is light weight. Old growth fir is heavy. Can't be sure .Whatever it is be sure to remove and discard and sap edges. As much as possible keep the bark side of all pcs toward the exterior.

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Yeah, I wasn't going to argue about the DFir because I'm not all that familiar with different woods yet. But it is much lighter than any VG Fir I've ever held. I'm just not that positive what kind of fir I have used in the past. Spanish cedar had been suggested but I don't think it smells strong enough for that. thanks, Jim

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Originally Posted by Jim Andrew

I think if I were starting from scratch building windows, would consider white oak. It is a wood that would have a lot of life against the weather. If you can install storm windows, they increase the life of windows by multiples.

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Thanks for the suggestion, Jim. I'll give it some consideration. I'm trying to track down this window guy I mentioned in the first post and he could tell me his thoughts hopefully and exactly what kind of wood he used, and why. It has been about 7 years now and first paint is still holding up nicely on it. Here it is in front, the big one on first floor:
Attachment 257707

I also think that it is old growth douglas fir.

That is western red cedar, I'd bet $1 on it. Not my favorite choice for windows. Doesn't hold hardware very well. I've had some bad experiences with that on a past job. Most windows involve at least some hardware. If yours are fixed sash it might be a good option. Assuming these are being painted, you have lots of choices. Alaskan yellow cedar is a lot stronger if you can get it in the appropriate grade. Spanish cedar is a good choice, readily available on the East coast of USA, as is African Mahogany. Doug Fir could work, though its ropey grain is a pain to mill, often needs to be climb cut to avoid tear out, test a small amount of that with your set up before committing to that species to make sure. Old growth pines were often a good paint grade choice, new growth stuff lasts as long as the paint. White oak is not on my list of window woods for two reasons, first its very heavy and hard to balance with traditional mechanisms (balances, weights, etc), might work for casements on butt hinges or fixed sash, though getting them in place would be more challenging. Second, it doesn't like changes in moisture content. It likes to be wet, it likes to be dry, it doesn't like oscillating from one to the other, this leads often to end checks and serious cracks. Not a great feature in a window. It does last well exposed to the elements in terms of rot resistance, and it is handsome, maybe ok if very well sealed, not my first choice, and I can't imagine its cost effective to buy rift sawn white oak in Alaska for fenestration. Beautiful house, love to see some pics of the windows what ever species you choose.

I was wrong and now I agree with the others. Looking closer, it's definitely old growth western red cedar. The first clincher was the (more or less) ziggy-zaggy late wood grain lines of the flat sawn side.

The real clincher, however, was the chip of the corner in the first picture. DFir would not chip like that - EVAR. Cedar would every time.

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Originally Posted by Peter Quinn

White oak is not on my list of window woods for two reasons, first its very heavy and hard to balance with traditional mechanisms (balances, weights, etc), might work for casements on butt hinges or fixed sash, though getting them in place would be more challenging.Second, it doesn't like changes in moisture content. It likes to be wet, it likes to be dry, it doesn't like oscillating from one to the other, this leads often to end checks and serious cracks.

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Peter, thanks for the serious advice! As for your concerns about white oak - the windows are fixed and have no hardware. However, we do have some serious swings in relative humidity. Hopefully this will be corrected with new windows, but now in the winter that cold dry air finds itself in our house quite readily so we have a hard time getting the humidity above the teens. (I think good health is in the neighborhood of 40% or more?). Not nice for wood musical instruments. Then the summers can be very wet (coastal). So not sure what will happen with good windows.. could start having moisture problems in the walls but that is another story.

Perhaps the advantage of western red cedar is I have some in stock. I have enough for some of the rails and all the muntins. I just don't have long enough pieces for stiles (7'-4" or so). However, I could always use that for something else. I'll give a call to some of the suppliers I know about on the west coast and see what I can find.

The way to tell is to make a clean slice in the end grain with a razor knife or razor blade and look at the end grain pore structure with a magnifying glass or a hand lens. Douglas fir will have resin canals present. Western red cedar does not have resin canals. Here is a link that describes resin canals and what to look for.

http://www.faculty.sfasu.edu/mcbroom...al_Species.PDF