Thanks Patrick.
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Thanks Patrick.
Rob has gone way above and beyond with his help of wounded veterans, time, money, effort, open to U.S. Canada, Australia, Great Britain etc.....
He is a "Hero" in my book for these efforts, a lot of people talk about help/supporting wounded/disabled veterans, most do it by only saying "Thank You".
There are high profile, non profit veteran organizations, with lots of donations, have done much less.
Will say that Rob is the type of personality, that one really doesn't get to know in 30 min YouTube blurbs, or even a short Woodcraft class. He is not at all like his "stage persona" even though there's nothing wrong with that.
I for one wish there were more people like Rob, he has taken out a full page ad in an upcoming issue of FWW about his wounded veterans efforts, hope he gets a lot of support.
The woodworking community is generally an outstanding group of individuals, I'm positive many will set up. Woodnet's Christmas auction is another fine example of woodworkers helping others, wider focus, but just as impressive.
They are all in my prayers for their efforts, they get my personal request for God to bless them.....
Best Regards,
Andy
-- mos maiorum
In my case the 'grey' is on the strop not the tool! The edge does get sharper as evidenced by touching it. However wonderful the LV grey back finish is, after sharpening the edge there is a burr to remove necessitating a small movement of the flat back on your highest grit stone. I suppose there is an argument for sharpening to a very fine grit to minimise this burr to the point where it's removal is trivial.
Come to think of it I believe that is what Barr Quarton achieves on his chisels when he finishes them on super fine 15K natural stone! He ends up with no burr.
The price of his final stone is horrible so I never gave it more thought! As an aside; to scratch stainless steel the scratches only have to be 1/4 the wavelength of light to be visible.
95% of sharpening is making sure that burr is gone, entirely. I would imagine most people who feel they aren't making a sharp edge are simply not doing a good enough job of taking off the burr.
This is why Japanese tap-out their blades, it simply makes removing the burr a breeze.
What does that mean- "tap-out" a blade?
If you don't know then you don't want to know. This is one case where ignorance is truly bliss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Zellers
If you really must know, it's how Western woodworkers ruin their expensive Japanese tools.
Now I'm DYING to know! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chase
Now to click on the link...
The link is actually to somebody who appears to be able to do a decent job of it (I'm sure Brian can opine more authoritatively as to his worthiness). A typical neophyte, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Zellers
EDIT: Brian appears to know Wilbur Pan :-)
Wow.I think the porn reference at the end is interesting and helps me understand the level we're dealing with here.
Now the ignorant questions:
He is tapping on a round anvil to flatten the iron? Is it really flattening it or does it create a tiny arc that is canceled out by the honing? (making the honing easier)
How does tapping the bevel at the point of contact on the curved anvil change the shape of the iron?
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I will definitely have to re-read that again.
And what is with the bevels on the sides of the iron? Is that specific to the plane he is using?
You're right, I've been defiled, but there is no turning back now. I don't see myself ever doing that but I'm still intrigued by the idea that others do it with great result.
To the OP:
Congrats to you on discovering "sharp". It really does help when you're using hand tools. Sharper edges stay sharper longer, giving you more time to work your wood.
To Stewie:
Have we forgotten that in ancient times carpenters were not cabinetmakers? They took had different standards of sharp. Have we forgotten that in the days of old, they had oil stones in Europe and waterstones in Asia? And both had leather or cloth strops? Have we forgotten that in days of old, steel was just plain carbon or high carbon steel? No fancy alloys, tool steels, or other challenging metallurgy to sharpen. I suspect there were similar epiphanies in the days of old when a carpenter borrowed the oil stone of his cabinetmaker buddy and said, "Wow!"
I'm not one to tout the latest and greatest of any new technology. I don't fault the ones who have the means or curiosity to try them out. I'd point out that the newer stones are often more affordable than the natural stones available back then. A Sigma Power II 13,000 grit stone is around $115 from Lee Valley. A natural Japanese waterstone of equivalent grit is nearly impossible to find, and can run easily into 4 figures for the same size stone. A Dan's Hard Black Arkansas stone from LV is $122. But, I know from experience, using a Dan's Hard Arkansas will take me at least 5x longer to get a decent edge on a D2 steel mortise pigsticker.
Just saying, history should be taken in context.
Stewie, I see where you are coming from. You have to realize that not all areas have the same level of ,shall we say, advancement. We were in the NT visiting a couple. He showed me his prized collection of old wood working tools. There wasn't many and none special. That's northern Australia. I'm from BC Canada, not an area rich in old tools and I have 10x.
I would suggest those who say grandfather did great work take a Norton silicon carbide combination oil stone and sharpen a blunted plane iron. Remember that's all, most joiners had for a sharpening stone. I've seen a number of old joiners' tool boxes. I never heard of a fine India, or an Arkansas until Lee Valley's first catalogue and I had read Popular Science since 1960 as boy thanks to Granny's Christmas gifts. By the '70s I was a professional carpenter, also I have weakness for tools. Rich Americans might have heard of them, but not us poor Canucks. Then try to use the plane. It will work, I've done it. But it was a wow moment when I saved up and got a white Hard Arkansas. My Imanishi stones go beyond that.
Allan; have you forgotten that most craftsmen in those earlier days underwent an apprenticeship within their craft and would be taught within that 1st and 2nd year of their apprenticeship how to properly sharpen and maintain their hand tools. That the level of trade training was strictly reinforced by their associated unions (especially within the UK, Australia, and parts of Western Europe) to insure the quality of craftsmen taken through that training continually met the appropriate standard. That those entering the trade were not just given the necessary training to be just a Carpenter, but dual training as a Carpenter and Joiner to encompass greater value and flexibility to their employers. Unlike the system that's currently been used in the USA. That the Cabinet Maker did not fall within the general scope of training outlined by that of a Carpenter and Joiner, and as such received their own specialized scope of training. That the market for woodwork hand tools is not solely directed towards the needs of the qualified craftsmen, but more in tuned with the growing demand by those that have not experienced any traditional training, and are in general not wanting to spend the required time to learn how to develop an efficient sharpening regime, or fettle their own tools to fine tune,
but more inclined in wanting their tools to work straight out of the box, and their blades to be harder and harder in abrasive resistance so that they don't need to stop and spend that time learning how to be more proficient within their sharpening technique, that the sharpening stones that once catered for needs of trained craftsmen are no longer good enough for those that choose to only spend their days off to experience wood craft, and because of there push for harder and harder steel alloys within their blades, they are being forced onto using ceramic stones by these tool manufacturers because the stones of days gone by just don't cut the mustard. That while many may consider there's an upside to using harder alloy steels, there is also a downside, but lets not go there as its hardly worthwhile explaining what those deficiencies are. Yes Allan, history can provide us with a lot of information if you are wanting to spend the time and think about it.
regards Stewie;
"System?" What is this system you speak of?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson
We got no stinkin "System". :rolleyes:
Time for me to back out of this thread again gentlemen. I have a bad feeling that further posts are going to start heating up, and that's not overly fair on the OP.
regards Stewie;
In the words of Homer Simpson, 'it is both the cause of, and solution to all of our problems', though I'm certain he wasn't referring to tapping out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chase
I've cracked one blade during tapping out (ura-dashi) and was happy to find out that I wasn't actually the root cause, but simply the unsuspecting victim. The trouble with tapping out is that if there is a flaw in the weld...you find it :D. I ground away 3/4" of hard steel (on a dry grinder) to remove a giant section of blade that problematic. Luckily the rest of the blade seems to be good. I plan to post photos as it is sort of an extreme situation.
Wilbur and I recently drove up to Kez together so we had plenty of time to BS about Japanese tools and life in general, he's very knowledgeable about Japanese tools and overall a very good person. He is showing an extreme example because he dropped the blade, so it will be a little different from regular maintenance tapping out. When you have to restore the blade to that degree (after dropping it) it's a serious amount of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chase
Here is a regular maintenance tapping out, I'm showing stages. The lower left chisel is immediately after I've completed tapping out, the immediate area right behind the edge is more polished looking, because it is actually standing slightly proud of the rest of the back. This blends to form the look of the chisel on the right over a few sessions.
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog....7/img_5582.jpg
I'm also changing the bevel angle (steeper), I don't get in a hurry to grind away expensive steel and so I will simply use the chisels and grind them at the steeper bevel until they eventually become fully bevels again. I'm showing that here;
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog....7/img_5581.jpg
Extreme case tapping out. This is the blade I mentioned above;
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog....7/img_5595.jpg
And the back with the flat near completely removed;
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog....7/img_5596.jpg
Believe it or not the crack still remained, I had to grind away another 1/8" after that point.
And here is the back, nearly restored. Working on the 8k snow white stone, as the steel is so hard that an Ark stone can't actually cut it. I would normally just ask for a replacement, and the seller would normally offer one, but this blade is 30-40 years old and the maker is long gone (the brand still remains, but this is an older smith). The steel is extremely hard, the hardest I have encountered and so it's made the process all the more difficult but should be worth it.
https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog....7/img_5597.jpg
Japanese irons are laminated, hard steel to soft iron. Tapping out the back, ura-dashi, is a process in which one expands the iron by tapping on it. The process of expanding the iron curls the hard steel ever so slightly to push the leading edge of the hard steel to stand proud of the rest of the back. When the back is then 'flattened' it ensures that the area immediately behind the edge will be polished, rather than that of the remainder of the back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Zellers