Rockler's NEW CNC Machine - CNC Shark

I just read up on the new CNC machine Rockler is now selling.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?O...Select=Details

Company info:
http://www.nextwaveautomation.com/CNCShark.aspx

It's no Shopbot but it does appear to bridge the $$ gap between a Carvewright and Shopbot.

Maybe our resident CNC guys could check into it. I've been looking into one of these machines for small work. Shopbot Buddy 32 would be nice but I just can't get the funds up (still don't know the exact running cost of a BT32 Alpha)

Few things to notice about the Rockler CNC Shark is:

Vcarve 3.1 program which I have read great things about. $500 software included with the price.

Use a router (Bosch Palm Router) instead of a rotozip type motor. I could be wrong but this maybe more power/strength/reliability. $120 you need to buy seperate, which I am ok with.

Z Axis is 4.5" and I think the Carvewright is under 2"? Not sure if that helps me but maybe someone?

Can't find out the Warranty but will email the person at Rockler, maybe ask about testing the machine, reliability, customer support etc.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/im...150-01-500.jpg

I looked, seriously, at the Rockler unit before I decided on the Carve Wright. I had two concerns. The first was the V-Carve software. I downloaded it, played with it and read reviews. I liked the Carve Wright software better.

I'm an electrical engineer doing process control. I've used autocad since before there was Windows, so I was not afraid of the V-Carve interface. I think the deciding factor was the ease that the Carve Wright software imported images for carving.

It looks like a tough little unit, and will probably outlast my Carve Wright by years. Motors are standard steppers, etc.

The other factor was the control unit needs to be connected to a pc. I like being able to dump the project on a card and use it, keeping my pc dust free.

So far, knock on wood, I have not had any problems (other than self induced) on my machine, but some of the Carve Wright machines do seem to have issues.

I do agree, it is a good machine for a lot of people. The 4"+ travel on the z-axis definetly beats the Carve Wright 3/4" to 1" travel.

Nathan

Well, seems I need to retract the second reason. According to the Rockler page "USB interface with removable memory card interface" is standard. My Rockler guys did not tell me that...

the carve wright software is easy to import stuff but it is pretty limited. and you can't begin to draw with it as you can vcarve. can't import dxf files or much of anything else. can somewhat vcarve text but not anything else. Myself I found the software pretty limited. but I have been using vcarve for over a year so thats part of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve knight

the carve wright software is easy to import stuff but it is pretty limited. and you can't begin to draw with it as you can vcarve. can't import dxf files or much of anything else. can somewhat vcarve text but not anything else. Myself I found the software pretty limited. but I have been using vcarve for over a year so thats part of it.

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I should have pointed out in my previous post that my desire was for pure hobby use. In a production oriented shop, there is no question that the vcarve software is powerful and more flexible.

One misconception I've seen is people thing the Carve Wright only carves in the raster mode (like a printer). That is how it does pictures and patterns, but designs that are made up of lines, arcs, etc actually cuts on all three axies at the same time.

This thread is to talk about the CNC Shark not the Carve Wright, so I will shut up.:D

nathan

Nathan, it's ok to compare the two, because that is what's out there.

Compucarve vs. CNC Shark.

on the CNC side, I read a bit on Vcarve and most like it. I see the point about Compucarve software being easy to use also. I just seen users comment on the limits with the compucarve software?

Got the Craftsman flyer today and Compucarve is on sale for $1700.

I just can't say yes yet. Everytime I do research, I see neg. comments.

Prob. wait to hear about this CNC Shark before jumping in.

Anyone else look at the specs? I've seen some comments on CNCzone saying that it could be built for much less? Not sure I want to take that step unless I bought a ready to assemble kit. Is there such a beast?

Peter

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Elliott

Anyone else look at the specs? I've seen some comments on CNCzone saying that it could be built for much less? Not sure I want to take that step unless I bought a ready to assemble kit. Is there such a beast?

Peter

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Peter, I had the same thought. Steppers and controllers should cost ~$500 dollars. Another $200 for misc parts. Then software and firmware. That should bring the cost to ~$1200. Then there is the time to build it, program it, and work out the bugs. Add a little profit in there and the price is not too bad. Of course bulk pricing would lower the cost of the parts.

I had thought of building one from scratch. I have a bunch of smaller steppers and a couple of controller boards. Have a drawer full of PICs and Stamps (Microcontrollers for those non electronic types). At present, I just did not have the time to worry about the firmware development time. Plus, my precision machining capabilities are a little limited.

One of these days, I may get around to trying to build one. May use the Carve Wright to make some of the parts:p.

nathan

what you can do with vcarve and a cnc router is some i8nlay like this done with vcarving., sharp corners and pretty much any shape. or two sided cuts


http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...nd3d3Small.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...honecup1-1.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...honecup2-1.jpg

New to this side of the forum. I hang out with the laser nerds. But man that has me wanting one. But I am strill trying to pay off the laser !

But the next step up has a 24 x 24 bed. I think that may be worth the upgrade !

Personally I'm partial to aluminum over polyethylene, but poly is probably better than MDF which a lot of home-builders are using (and some are even selling MDF units on eBay). But you'll never get aluminum for this kind of price. If you consider Vcarve worth around $500 then the machine itself is $1800 with stepper motors, drivers, and control software.

You can buy a nice alum frame from K2CNC.com (they have one on eBay right now) which is "bare" (no electronics/motors) for $1250. (Heavy to ship though.) At least it looks good in the picture. There are probably others out there similar to this. If you assembled the electronics yourself and buy Mach3 for machine control you could do it for maybe $500-$1000. Mach3 is around $150 I believe. It would be a heavier-duty machine though. Mach3 can be a bit intimidating if you aren't already into machine control and gcode. FlashCut has a nice interface but is $1200+ I believe. I don't recommend that you try to build PCBs and write software unless you want to spend years on a DIY project. You can buy Geckos or a Xylotec board and it will save you a lot of grief.

You still need a drawing program of some kind. You can do some drawing in Vcarve but that's not what it is really meant to be. You may need CorelDraw or a CAD package.

The polyethylene unit is probably fine for light duty fabricating. Note that Vcarve is at release 4.X now, so either have them supply the latest version or find out how much extra it would cost to get the latest version. Not sure why they would be offering down-level software.

If you are really considering that much money for a cnc, Joe over on the cnczone forum has a great set of plans. He is using 80/20 and the whole machine just bolts together with a few mdf pieces glued together. I think it was around $2200 for the machine and it would give you almost 48" square of cutting area along with 4-6" of z travel. If you can put together wood projects you should be able to put together this unit. You would still need to get the v-carve software...have a computer...dust collector etc. At the quality of a shop bot at a much less price it is a pretty good deal.
Good luck,
Greg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Richard Rumancik

You still need a drawing program of some kind. You can do some drawing in Vcarve but that's not what it is really meant to be. You may need CorelDraw or a CAD package.

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it is limited but I draw almost everything in it. when it is really complex I get someone else to do it. or 3d work. but 99% of what I make including my planes have all been drawn out in vcarve.

Got an email back from Rockler's Al Wolford. Thought it was nice of him to give a detailed answer. Also gave permission to broadcast this to us on SMC.

Here it is:

Peter,
Thanks for your interest in the CNC Shark. Your inquiry mirrors the questions that many our customers have had about the system since it's introduction . I will try answer them to the best of my ability. This will end up being very long but feel free to submit any or all of it to www.sawmillcreek.org
Compare this to the Carvewright/Compucarve:
- Carvewright:
- Unit is more of a carving machine versus a true CNC.
- Stock moves while the cutter head stays in one plane; this means you need a minimum size working piece in order to stay under the rollers.
- Uses a friction feed (basically sand paper) to hold and move wood.
- Through plunge cuts cannot be achieved on the Carvewright without special setup not recommended for Carvewright machine.
- Uses plastic gears in the drive trains.
- Fully enclosed design makes access to moving parts difficult and router is built into the machine.
- Proprietary hardware for the router or bits
-Shark:
- Work piece is secured to its base.
- Gantry moves which drastically reduces the chance of a piece moving while being cut.
- Can work on longer pieces of wood (You can cut up to 24 inches (Length) at a time before repositioning stock.
- You can get a 19 inch wide piece of wood in between the gantry but you can only cut 13 inches ( 6.5 inches either side off center).
- Can use just about any software with our machine that can generate standard GCode. (Chose to have V-Carve come with the machine as we thought it most flexible and simple to use for what most of our customers would be using the machine to accomplish. Other software is available and at this time available through the manufacturer.)
- Can achieve a plunge through cut, but you do not normally cut any deeper than the width of the bit to ensure clean chip removal. There is also the “tabs” option in the V-Carve software that allows you to keep a small .030 inch tab in place when cutting out a part.
- Uses direct drive from the motors to the lead screws.
- Open design allows operator to easily see and access mechanical parts for cleaning and upkeep.
- Parts are easily repaired or replaced if necessary by the user rather than the factory.
- Router is a separate component from the machine itself. (replacement cost of around $100 rather than the cost of a new Carvewright.)
- User may use any router bit that fits their router.

Why Rockler chose this machine:
- Rockler received demonstrations of both the Shark and Compucarve/CarveWright and both performed as advertised.
- They both produced quality results within the limitations of the machines used.
- We chose the Shark because of its greater versatility and capability seemed to closer match what our customers told us they wanted to see in an affordable CNC system.
- The use of a separate router and not being "locked into" proprietary bits also entered into our decision to choose the Shark.
- A larger model (the Shark Pro) which increases the Y axis to 24" (almost double the Shark) is currently available and will be advertised soon.
What is the warranty on the machine?
- The manufacturer's warranty is a one year limited warranty (fully supported by Rockler as the exclusive distributor.)
- Reliability demonstrated by the product from current users (over the past 2 years) indicates that an extended warranty is not warranted.

How will customer service be handled?
- Any questions or issues regarding order processing and shipping will be handled by Rockler.
- Rockler will also handle the majority of questions regarding capability of the machine and suitability of the Shark for customer applications.
- Specific setup and software issues will be handled by Rockler in partnership with the manufacturer.
(Note: To date this partnership has resulted in extremely high levels of satisfaction to purchasers and users…we plan to keep it that way.)
Are there plans for web video?
- As we speak the video is being worked on and should be available online and in our retail stores soon. (I will contact you when it is done.)

Some closing comments:
-According to Carvewright, Carvewright/Compucarve got the reputation of having a poor product due to Sears trying to cover technical issues for which they were unprepared. Carvewright has made many improvements and they have assured us that these issues are no longer “issues”.
- Rockler may decide to carry this product in the future as it does have applications that are not currently available on the Shark
- Rockler is very excited to bring the Shark products to our customers. We fully realize that some of the peripheral material for the Shark (e.g. the instructions are very basic, warranty not stated, etc.) are not as sleek or polished as more mature systems. These things are being improved daily. We felt the capability, versatility and proven durability of the Shark far outweighed any of these shortcomings.
Thanks,
Al Wolford
Manager Technical Services
Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
1-800-260-9663

Peter, thanks for the update. I would sure like to see one the Sharks up close. There aren't any Rocklers in this neck of the woods....yet.

Hi All
In my line of work the Shark Pro ( 24 X 24) which rockler handles just not on the site yet ( 36900 ) is one that will fit my needs. Other machines are either to small or to expensive. So I am purchasing the Pro. Will let all of you know how it works out and maybe a video if I can figure out how.
ken

What is the price of the PRO out the door with everything you need to get started?