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Rummaging around YouTube last weekend I found this video that I thought provided a good visual as well as hand's on description of what the different gouge grinds are and what this turner found them useful for. I found it particularly useful as the turner put the different grinds through their paces on the exact same piece of wood and orientation. With so many new-turners having joined recently I thought many may find this useful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSOMDkjwnOo
I didn't watch the whole video but stopped just after three minutes. Look at the grind on his second gouge at about 3:10 through about 3:15, for example 3:12. The wing does not have a continuous curve on the edge but it has a "hump" on the side, making it look like there is a dip on the side of the nose. That is a horrible grind! (in my opinion) When he said the gouge "likes" to be used on the nose but compared to the first gouge can feel "odd" when cutting with the wing with a good chance of catching I thought, yikes, no wonder. This problem with some flute shapes can be avoided once you understand what to look for. It's also one reason some people advocate grinding by hand without a jig. His other grind looks OK but I didn't watch to the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Grace
JKJ
I agree on the grind. I also watched just 2-3 minutes and noticed he appeared to be cutting uphill into the grain - not normally how I would cut.
OK. Excuse my ignorance, but I have to ask, why would one need so many different angles on gouges? I have 2. A "regular" gouge grind, which I sharpen ALL of my bowl gouges to. From my 1/8" to my 3/4" gouge. V, U and parabolic. They all go in the same (Tormek) jig at the same angle. I never change my gouge jig settings. The other grind is the bottom of the bowl grind. I managed to score another jig, which I grind all of my spindle gouges to. So, I guess I have 3. I never change my spindle gouge jig settings either.
TIA
I have 4 grinds. I guess I need to photograph them. I have Stewart BAtty's 40/40 that I use when I get tearout from my regular gouge which is 55 degrees. Many of my bowl forms won't let me use the 40/40. I one U shaped gouge with long wings. It's used primarily for pull cuts where I need a sharper edge to keep tearout down. the wings on this one are very thin so it gives me an edge that's around 25 degrees. For my bottom feeding tool I use Hunter #4. It has a cutting edge that is around 22 degrees so it cuts incredibly clean and since the cutter is mounted flat you have an outside bevel of about 82 degrees so you can cut the bottom of boxes and really steep bowls and get a finish that is almost as good as 400 grit sanding. Then I have a Hunter Hercules that I use on the outside and sometimes on the inside where torn grain is a problem. This tool has the cutter mounted at 30 tilt forward. The bevel of that tool is almost exactly the same as my 55 degree bowl gouge but the cutting edge is 22 degrees. I use it as a last pass on many of my turnings because it cuts so clean. You can use it like a scraper when held horizontally and it works fantastic. I like the big Hercules for roughing bowls. I use the mini Hercules for most of my smaller work. I have done quite a few videos on Hunter tools. You can find them on youtube. Here is one on the Hercules. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzrLN8SQ8ms&t=7s
IMO, one must experiment to determine what works best for the style and technique used, and, in part influenced by the objects turned. Find what works for you and settle in on producing quality work. A lot of time, energy, metal, frustration and wood can be used in continually seeking the “magic” formula. All the while, your turning skills and the refinement in your work have suffered. In the end, it is about the quality of the work - at least for me. In saying that, I realize many folks turn for the simple enjoyment of turning and there certainly is nothing wrong with that. For me, it is all about the artistic quality of my work and turning is one part of how I achieve that. After the turning, there are many other efforts that go into the finished piece.
Ultimately, I settled into a 47* grind with swept back wings for my working bowl gouges, 60* for my bottom feeder, and 35* for my spindle gouges. The one exception is a spindle gouge the has a 47* fingernail grind I use to back hollow end grain. None of those may work for others, but for me and my style of turning, they work - and that is all that matters. I do have some Hunter tools I also enjoy using.
So, my advice is to spend some time and try different grinds until you feel one works for you, given what and how you turn, and then quit being influenced by every new video that pops up on the web or every article you see. Those grinds may work for those folks, but that doesn’t mean they will work for you. Spend that time studying form, proportions, flow, lift and your embellishment and finishing technique. That will do more for the quality of your work than will searching for a “better grind.”
That video was maybe okay, but shall we say he has a lot to learn. His 'shear scrape' that he shows when turning the inside of the bowl is a scrape, and has zero shear angle to the cut... As for gouge grinds, I have a number of them. I do have the engineer's syndrome, which is "If it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it any way!" Primary finish cut gouge on the outside is a 45/45 instead of the 40/40, which is just too pointy for me. I have several 60 and 70 degree gouges for the inside transition and across the bottom cuts. These have several flute shapes from Doug Thompson's fluteless gouge, to spindle type gouges with ) nose profile, to half round shapes and parabolic. I don't use the swept back gouges at all, and I need to do a video on that topic as well...
robo hippy
I watched it a couple times. The one thing that is really wrong is he’s turning the best figure in the blank into little curls. The side he is cutting away should be in the bottom of the bowl. All that will be left of the feathered figure is some wigglely wood on the walls of the bowl. Don’t be “greedy” trying to get the biggest bowl you can. Put the figure in the bottom!
I also thought that. Thanks for posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Bergstrom
Thanks for those who responded about multiple angles. Perhaps I should try more angles........
Kyle I use a Tormek also, and I would encourage you to change settings depending on the gouge. I've been following Glenn Lucas's recommendations for years and it has really simplified my sharpening. I have three Tormek SVD-185/186 jigs set at different settings depending on which gouge I'm sharpening. My 3/8" and 1/2" spindle gouges and 1/2" bowl gouge use one setting which puts a 45 degree bevel on them. For my 5/8" and 3/4" gouge I use a different jig and setting which puts a 55 degree bevel. For my bottom bowl gouge I use my 3rd jig (with a shorter protrusion) to give a 60 degree bevel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Iwamoto
U, V, and Parabolic are all sharpened differently. The motion or sweeping action is different depending on the flute profile.
watching Dave Schweitzer (D-Way Tools) at the lathe a while back, he had three different grinds on 1/2” bowl gouges sitting on the ways ready to use on the inside of a bowl he was turning. They were color coded, if I remember correctly. Each had a different nose angle to reach the bottom of the bowl. More open forms may not require all three, but closed forms often do...besides, there was always a freshly sharpened gouge at the ready.
Full disclosure - Dave has plenty of tools at his disposal...
I keep a bottom feeder at the ready for that last 1/3 to the bottom, and have recently been experimenting with different grinds for my go-to 1/2” gouge. So far, for the open bowl forms I favor, the 45 - 50 degree nose angle seems to get me to the bottom