Flatten plane sole - assembled or apart?

I'm going to check and flatten the sole on my block and #4 tonight then move on to sharpening the irons. I'll be using 60/100/150/220, etc sandpaper on my jointer bed to do the work.

The big question is do I flatten with the plane disassembled or assembled with the iron retracted? I've seen and read both methods and I don't know which is correct. It would seem to make sense to flatten the sole with the iron and cap in place because that's how it's used and it needs to be flat in use not taken apart bu I don't really know.

Is there a consensus on which way or does it even matter?

-Dan

Retract the iron, flatten sole with the normal tension as if the plane was "working". That's what I've done. Others may differ, but it is just my method.

It doesn't make much difference if the plane is a decent plane. I always do it with the whole thing together, it's easier to flatten a plane by hand if you have the maximum number of things to grab on and you'll get a better job out of it if you flatten it taking strokes in one direction as if you are planing, and keep your grip firm (so as not to allow the plane to rock).

But if the plane is out of flat enough to need lapping (twist or concavity especially), really anything you do will probably improve it. Less is more when you're lapping, too. Lap it until it's flat, not until it's pretty.

I flatten them assembled with the iron retracted.

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Originally Posted by Dave Parkis

I flatten them assembled with the iron retracted.

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+1, I agree with all the posters above.

I agree with what others have said - it might be different if you were trying to fixture it into a machine surface grinder thing like Tablesaw Tom does, but like Dave says, I don't there's much difference if the plane is decent, so I opt for assembled because it gives you something to hold. Dave's tips about the method used (always go in one direction, etc.) are also helpful.

I'd also add that I always start with something in the finer grits - while I doubt the coarse scratches from something like 60 grit really make a huge difference during use, it seems a shame to start with something coarse, make a bunch of scratches, and realize that the plane is actually flat enough for use (or doesn't need a whole lot of coarse removal) only after you start with something very aggressive. A few strokes should give you an idea of the current state of the thing.

Not to be flip, but are you sure this is necessary?

Have you put a straightedge on the sole (with the works assembled) and shone a light under it?
If you can't see any light, it's ready to go.

I spent 4 hours lapping last night. I did my block plane and #4 at the same time. I used a sharpie marker on the sole and a piece of 320 grit sandpaper mounted to glass so I could gauge how flat they were to start. I was hoping one or both might be close. I was wrong. Both were far from flat. Since they are both Stanley "contractor" model planes, I'm not surprised. I switched to 60 grit paper and went to work lapping. The vast majority of my time was spent on the 60 grit. 3 hours and 4 1/2 sheets later, I was confident that both soles were flat everywhere it mattered. I also worked the sides. I tried to get them flat and perpendicular to the sole. They are close but I may revisit this later if it's important.

After I felt I was done with the 60, I ran the plane at and angle in each direction to create diagonal scratches. I switched to 100 grit. The cross scratches are a visual guide that let me know when I had removed all the 60 grit marks. Then I made some 100 grit diagonals and dropped to 150 and then 220. That's where they sit now. I'm not sure if I need to go finer that 220. The soles are not polished but they are very smooth. I have paper up to 2000, so I *can* go further.

Is there any advantage to getting them smoother than 220?

Tonight, Once I'm sure I'm done with the soles, I'm going to work on the sharpening the irons. It may not be strictly necessary, but I'm going to check and re-flatten the backs, re-grind the primary bevel and then sharpen and hone using a micro bevel. I've heard about setting a camber to the iron on the #4. I'm not going to do this right now. I don't really understand what it does or how to correctly add the camber.

After that, if I've done my work well, I should have 2 tuned planes that are ready for work. Then I can start working on technique.

I think it's necessary for a couple of reasons. First, these are inexpensive planes and the factory level of fit and finish is low. Even though I partially flattened them when I bought them, when I checked I discovered they were way off. To work competently, these need far more attention than a higher quality plane. I want them to work well, so I need to prepare them well.

Secondly, I want to build this skill. If I'm going to use hand tools, I need to know how to set them up and maintain them. IMO, this is no different than my table saw, power jointer or a router.

Also, I feel a lot better practicing on a $35 plane than I would on the better planes that I might eventually buy.

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Originally Posted by Jim Matthews

Not to be flip, but are you sure this is necessary?

Have you put a straightedge on the sole (with the works assembled) and shone a light under it?
If you can't see any light, it's ready to go.

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As a machinist I know that metal,especially thin cast iron,is easy to bend. Therefore,I'd recommend,like the rest of the responders here,to lap with the plane fully assembled and the iron retracted some,but under normal tension.

Some years ago,I was installing a collet chuck on a large lathe with a D8 size spindle. D8 is pretty massive. I had tightened all of the bolts quite tight. I mean REALLY tight. The collet was running out a few tenths(.0001"'s). That is well within acceptable tolerance. I am a perfectionist though,and wanted it closer. It was remarkable to me that by tightening an already very tight bolt,I was able to get the collet down to that last .0001". And,the steel in the mounting was over 8" in diameter,and over 1" thick!!

How much force do you think,by comparison,it would take to warp a thin,cast iron plane? Not much. That's why I would lap when assembled and all screws under tension,cap iron too.

George your comments are why I'd lap a plane together, though the accuracy isn't that important, but more importantly, lap it similar to the way you're going to use it.

And if it's convex and it seems like the toe and the heel are low and aren't getting worked fast enough, literally put your hands on the part of the plane you want to remove metal from, the metal will get worked wherever your hand pressure is.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Rode

I think it's necessary for a couple of reasons. First, these are inexpensive planes and the factory level of fit and finish is low. Even though I partially flattened them when I bought them, when I checked I discovered they were way off. To work competently, these need far more attention than a higher quality plane. I want them to work well, so I need to prepare them well.

Secondly, I want to build this skill. If I'm going to use hand tools, I need to know how to set them up and maintain them. IMO, this is no different than my table saw, power jointer or a router.

Also, I feel a lot better practicing on a $35 plane than I would on the better planes that I might eventually buy.

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You'll never get there unless you spot sand, or better yet scrape, the high parts. Once you get things fairly well straightened out then it's time to lap the entire sole in order to *essentially* blend everything in. Learning to scrape is building a skill you could potentially use elsewhere, rubbing the whole thing around on sandpaper while it teeter-totters between different high spots generally making things worse isn't really building a useful skill. You've already lost four hours and in this amount of time you should have been able to almost achieve Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley flatness on one plane at least, maybe one plus about halfway through another. It's like planing a board - you hit high spots to get the thing closer to a point of equality and then you start making full strokes, the corollary in sole truing being lapping.

This is a reasonably decent place to start:

http://www.amgron.clara.net/plane%20...ape%20105.html

By the end of all of this you'll probably wish you'd simply bought wood-bodied planes that take about ten minutes for a sole true up.

Daniel, I do not go beyond 220 grit when flattening. IMO, that doesn't add any benefit other than make it prettier.

Ummm. I did get there. The soles of both planes are flat. I'll check out the link but barring future damage, I'm done with soles of these 2 planes for good.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Stanford

You'll never get there unless you spot sand, or better yet scrape, the high parts. Once you get things fairly well straightened out then it's time to lap the entire sole in order to *essentially* blend everything in. Learning to scrape is building a skill you could potentially use elsewhere, rubbing the whole thing around on sandpaper while it teeter-totters between different high spots generally making things worse isn't really building a useful skill. You've already lost four hours and in this amount of time you should have been able to almost achieve Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley flatness on one plane at least, maybe one plus about halfway through another. It's like planing a board - you hit high spots to get the thing closer to a point of equality and then you start making full strokes, the corollary in sole truing being lapping.

This is a reasonably decent place to start:

http://www.amgron.clara.net/plane%20...ape%20105.html

By the end of all of this you'll probably wish you'd simply bought wood-bodied planes that take about ten minutes for a sole true up.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Rode

Ummm. I did get there. The soles of both planes are flat. I'll check out the link but barring future damage, I'm done with soles of these 2 planes for good.

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Can't argue with success. What are you using to check flatness?