Removing a stuck brass vise dog

Hey folks,
No wood involved in this one. Not yet at least. This old WC Toles vise I just found had its brass vise dog pounded down into its hole. Previous owner told me his grandpa (the original owner) did it for some unknown reason. Originally the vise dog was hollowed out partially and had a spring in it. You can see the spring through the set screw hole pictures below.
Attachment 362786Attachment 362787Attachment 362788

The vise also had a handy little slow for a pry bar just incase the vise dog got stuck. Thoughtful engineering, I know. Anyway, I sprayed oil in the hole and let it sit for well over a day, stuck a pry bar in there and tried to gently pry the brass dog up. No go. Try harder. Nope. Really pry on it now. Nothing. Ok fine, hit the pry bar with a hammer! No! Don't do that! You could break something! So here I am now, unsure of how to proceed. Should I drill into the top of the dog and try to extract it like a broken bolt? Or should I apply some heat first and try to pry it out still? I've used heat to loosen stuck bolts before but I don't want to damage anything, and I don't know if vises had any sort of heat treatment that I might damage.

What say the experts?

I don't know anything about that vise but perhaps the softer brass was deformed and is now locked into irregularities in the casting. In this case heating or lube would likely not work. Broken bolts/screws are usually backed out by rotating after drilling a hole to accept an extractor. Seems like this would have to be driven out (which could deform the metal more) or cut out.

Without seeing it, perhaps drill a hole, tap threads on it for a bolt, and devise a puller to try to extract it. If that didn't work, I'd consider drilling a number of holes to remove most of the volume then gently chisel and/or cut away inside (Dremel with carbide bit?) until the brass is thin enough to be pried away from the inside walls. (Assuming the guess about the deformation is correct)

If I could see it some other idea might present itself. Perhaps consulting with a local friend who works with metals would be useful.

JKJ (not an expert but do dabble in metalworking)

I've believe the dog is just rectangular except for some soft "teeth" that are cut/filed into it. This video shows what it is supposed to look like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOQj0DXdtI

Based on that I would imagine the inside of the casting is straight and flat. That would be ideal for the function of the vise dog, at least. But I really don't know. My only concern with drilling and tapping is that I don't want to destroy the dog if it can be saved. But if I give up on saving the dog that sounds like my best next move.

If I try to use heat is there any chance that I might damage something? Assuming I won't go nuts and heat it all up to the point of glowing...

And as far as lubricating fluids...is kroil a good bet?

With stuck parts I usually use PB Blaster.

Heat is good for some situations such as rusted, difficult-to-remove bolts and nuts on farm equipment and vehicles. (repair guys sometimes call the acetylene torch the "fire wrench") The expansion of the nut can break the connection loose. Another option is to use dry ice to cool a connection. How either of these (or lube) would work in your situation is unknown. If the brass is forced into irregularities by deformation I can't imagine the heat option helping but who knows, it might if the bond is right on the edge of loosening.

I couldn't say if heat will damage your vise. Maybe someone else will chime in. Excessive heat can in fact do a lot of damage, such as changing the hardening/temper of steel as you mentioned, causing castings to crack, melting internal non-metallic parts, etc. I would not advise anyone to take a torch to something I haven't examined! I might do it myself, though, if it were mine, and take the risk. If so, I would disassemble everything possible first.

Pulling it out with a big bolt might be the easiest safe bet, using a nut to apply force. If that works, the threaded hole might be filled with a piece of threaded rod or a brass bolt.

If it were mine, I'd probably still cut it out then machine a new brass dog, replace the spring, etc. However, this may be an easier option for those of us who have milling equipment. Duh! Of course, if you'll settle for function over authenticity, you could make a new dog easier from hardwood. Dogwood would be perfect! I've also used Lignum Vitae for making various parts.

JKJ

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Originally Posted by Matthew Hutchinson477

I've believe the dog is just rectangular except for some soft "teeth" that are cut/filed into it. This video shows what it is supposed to look like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOQj0DXdtI
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Based on that I would imagine the inside of the casting is straight and flat. That would be ideal for the function of the vise dog, at least. But I really don't know. My only concern with drilling and tapping is that I don't want to destroy the dog if it can be saved. But if I give up on saving the dog that sounds like my best next move.

If I try to use heat is there any chance that I might damage something? Assuming I won't go nuts and heat it all up to the point of glowing...

And as far as lubricating fluids...is kroil a good bet?

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I'm thinking the drill/tap/pull on the bolt method will be safest here. The top of the dog is beat to hell anyway so I'd have to clean it up anyway and in that case I can fill the hole in with a threaded brass rod and then file the top of the dog back into shape.

My original plan was to keep this vise in it's original condition rather than completely restore and repaint it but function must take priority over form. If I have to make a new vise dog I'll probably just keep going on that route and completely restore the whole vise. I'll update you when I get this problem sorted out. Thanks for the opinions.

You can leave the vise in it's original condition and add dog holes to the jaw insert.

Ehhh that's too easy!

In all seriousness that would be the safest route, and I honestly hadn't even thought about that. But I want this thing to function as it was originally intended to. I went to town last night cleaning one of the jaws and found that there is more rust under the surface grime than I originally thought. Given that I may just end up doing a full restoration and repainting if there's no nice patina left after rust removal. Thank you for the suggestion.