Long bed vs short bed wide jointers

Is there a valid reason to buy a separate long bed jointer when it is cheaper to buy a jointer/planer and use extension rollers?

Presently, I'm using a poor little 6" jointer with a 4' roller bed on each end, and plan on keeping the roller beds for use with present planer (but won't work with planer on j/p combo machines) and drum sander. So, I've already got the time invested in heavy duty roller beds. . .

How effective is face jointing a 12' long 14" wide board with the shorter tables? Of course, taking into account adjusting the rollers so they're level with the beds. Or does one not need such rollers? Easier just to use a stock feeder? or does that help?

I would love a 14" long bed jointer, but don't see any way I'd be able to buy a house with a big enough garage (I move a fair amount.)

TIA for opinions from anybody with any experience in these matters.

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Originally Posted by John Preston

I would love a 14" long bed jointer, but don't see any way I'd be able to buy a house with a big enough garage (I move a fair amount.)

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John,

First, let’s talk about the need for long infeed and outfeed tables on jointers vs. planers. If you’re trying to joint long stock, long tables become important. They support the work piece and, on the outfeed side, provide the reference plane for the jointed face. Long tables on a planer are somewhat less important. There, pressure rollers keep the reference (jointed) face of the stock squashed flat against the table. Long tables make it easier so you don’t have a 12’ noodle flopping around. Granted, too long an unsupported piece as it’s just feeding in or ending the run, could provide too much leverage which can cause bounce and maybe some snipe. There, the roller stands would work fine.

If you want a wide jointer, like 14”, you’re going to get long tables if you’re looking at a standalone machine. Take the Grizzly 16” as an example. It’s 8+ feet long. That’s an aircraft carrier. Part of the reason is that anyone who’s spending the $$$ for a standalone jointer that size expects long tables.

The key point here is “standalone” machine.

You can get as good quality in a combination machine as you can in standalone machines – if you’re willing to spend the money. My frame of reference for these comments is Felder machinery. Please don’t take this as a gloat – my purpose of describing my jointer/planer is to point out what may be an alternative for you to consider.

The overall length of my j/p is basically 80”. For most boards, I see that as plenty of length. When I’m jointing 12’ stock for flooring (actually, almost anything more than a few boards) – I will use a power feeder. Why? It’ll provide a more consistent finish, make it easier to handle the stock and keep my hands away from the blade area, even with the European style guard on it. One really nice thing about the Felder is the ability to extend the tables. The ends of the infeed and outfeed tables have a lip. Felder makes a series of table extensions that clamp onto the lip. Once adjusted for level, the tables move from machine to machine without further need for adjustment. Put the table on, tighten down the quick-release lever and – voila – instant longer table. These come in lengths of 20”, 24” and 43”.

What’s my point?

You can get a j/p that fits in a nominal 7’ long space. That’s only a foot longer than a Delta DJ-20 or Powermatic 60 and is the same length as those company’s 12” jointers. You have a choice of 12, 16 or 20” in the Felder. My combo j/p takes up a footprint 1’ longer and about the same width as my old DJ-20 – and it’s the 20” model. You can park the Felder j/p right against a wall. There’s no need for space in back of it for the fence – it’s engineered not to need it.

In a garage shop where space is tight, this could be a real advantage for you. On those occasions when you need really long infeed and/or outfeed tables – roll the machine out, clamp on the extension tables, do your milling, and then restore the machine back against the wall. Otherwise, leave it against the work and work there.

Felder is not your only option in high quality combo machines. The Mini-Max machines are good, too. They don’t offer as many options and I don’t know whether or not you can get extension tables for them. Looking at the pictures of Jim Becker’s FS-350 (12” j/p), it doesn’t look like it. The jointer fence design also uses a bar which requires clearance from the wall in back of it. You could probably buy a MM and get the Felder tables for it (with mounting bars).

These aren’t cheap. You can drop big $$ on the Mini-Max some serious $$$ on the Felder machines, party because of quality and partly because of the options you can add on. For example, I spec’d mine with the continuously variable feed speed for the planer (so I can slow it way down to handle stuff like figured maple) and powered, digital height adjustment on the planer table. That means I punch in a thickness and it adjusts to that height, within about .001” or when I’m switching back to jointer mode, rather than cranking the table down by hand I punch in “bottom” and down it goes. Tersa heads are an option (these I know are also available on the MiniMax).

To summarize all this, if you are limited by space (aren’t we all!!!) but need/want wide jointing capabilities, you have 2 options. One is to live with large jointer and planer separates; the other is to invest in a good combo machine. When I looked at 20” jointers, I found that the price of those (plus a 20” planer) was so much of a jump over the 12” and 16” machines that the Felder was price competitive (and it didn’t take up anywhere near the floor space and I could fit the Felder’s through the 34” opening to my basement).

After all this, I don’t know whether I answered your question or not. If I didn’t, please holler.

Rob

While I have not done it, I can't think that a roller support would have much of a good effect on the accuracy of a large or wide jointer. I have an vintage (1925 or so) Am. Woodworking Machinery jointer, 12", and I think it is 87", but poss. 84". With a long and heavy board, you need real accuracy, and that I do not think is practical with a feed table or rollers, unconnected to the tables. I am sure the Felder system is fine, as this is great equip. On the other hand, I give up a lot of floor space with mine. But, no regrets. I wouln't be without it. In fact, I am thinking that I will put on a spiral head as soon as a good commission comes along and I can justify the expense. But if it had short tables, like some of the ads I have seen for the European machines (60"?), I might well steer away from them. The long beds are sometimes essential. On the other hand, I build furniture, not built-ins (typically) and rarely work with a board over six feet in finished length. And, I generally crosscut before I joint and plane. So, maybe I'm full of it on this point. As to the planer, I have a pretty inexpensive 20" WoodTek, and with a long board, I just walk around and catch it. Length is not important to me on the planer.
I will say, however, that when I pass along, the jointer goes with the house. It must weigh over 1500 lbs, and getting it into the basement took 4 strong guys (I wasn't one of them) and that was after disassembly. The three leg base pedestal must be about 600# itself. So, if you move a bunch, I hope you have a forklift.
Alan

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Originally Posted by Rob Russell

The Mini-Max machines are good, too. They don’t offer as many options and I don’t know whether or not you can get extension tables for them. Looking at the pictures of Jim Becker’s FS-350 (12” j/p), it doesn’t look like it. The jointer fence design also uses a bar which requires clearance from the wall in back of it. You could probably buy a MM and get the Felder tables for it (with mounting bars).

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The FS-350 (14" wide, BTW) had no problem with 8' boards without any additional support when I started using it last weekend. Longer definitely would, however. It should be relatively easy to make extensions for this kind of machine, but my shop wouldn't handle it! I don't believe that MM offers them. Units from other manufacturers might work as long as they are the "right width" to match the castings.

Even with the end-mount fence that's available for the FS-350, there will still be the need for clearance behind the machine for the guard that rides over the knives when the fence is moved forward.