Tung Oil Finish Practicality

A friend of mine is having a TV armoir built out of cherry. The guy building it said he will only finish it with tung oil, and that the piece will need to be refinished on a periodic basis. His comment was that Thomas Moser does his furniture that way also. Claimed that people even send their furniture back to Moser to have them reoiled. Now, me being somewhat new at this hobby and a user of new technology I would think this to be a little troublesome.

Questions:

1) Do people finish things like this?
2) Do you really have to re-oil the piece occasionally?
3) Would this be practical for an armoir?
4) Is this reapplying of oil something the normal (non woodworker) can do?

Up until now I've only used BLO, poly and shellack, none of which need to be reaplied.

Tung oil is really easy to apply. I wouldn't fret it. I would reapply AS NEEDED more so than on a strict schedule. Todd.

The gentleman is incorrect with regard to Moser finishes. From their website:

How will my furniture be finished?
We prefer to use an oil-and-wax finish, which allows air and sunlight to naturally color the wood with a subtlety unmatched by anything from a can. The heated linseed oil penetrates the surface of the wood, adding greater visible depth to the wood, revealing the grain pattern. Our linseed oil and wax finishes are easy to maintain and age gracefully as the wood's natural patina emerges. (can't direct link to their FAQ, for verification go to http://www.thosmoser.com/furniture_index_set.htm , choose "Contact us", then "FAQ") The FAQ also discusses how Moser asks their customers to care for their furniture, which does not include mailing it back.

If treated very gently, a pure tung oil finish is feasible. Reapplying oil is easy, but a lot of people find the smell rather offensive.

A pure tung oil finish can easily be over-varnished at a later date if desired. I would expect the craftsman builder to wash his hands of warranties at that time, though...

Dave

There's an old saying with pure oil finishes in that they're never finished! You are supposed to oil "once a day for week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and once a year forever". Some people substitute wax on top of the initial cured oil, but the wax also needs cleaned and re-waxed periodically.

I like oil finishes and use a lot of oil-poly blends to get that oil depth and poly protection. I usually start with mostly pure tung and thinner for the first coats, then gradually add poly to the mix to build coats. Towards the end I'm at least 1/3 each of tung, thinner, poly. A couple final coats can even be thinned poly if you like. The trick with oil is not to add too much and to let it cure between. If it gets tacky, you then have to strip some off and start re-building the oil coats.

The other thing I forgot is that cherry is supposed to be real finicky about stains and such. Can turn blotchy. That's why most people like to oil cherry. I think if you need to color cherry, it may be best to use dyes and/or pre-seal?

Hi Jim, If it seems like a real problem to your firiend. Tell him not to order it unless he gets what he wants. Have him go to someone else. Don't forget the customer is always right. Pete

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Well at lest the part about folks sending stuff back to Moser and them using tung oil. It sounds to me like the guy making the armoire is trying to take the easy way out is is doing a "sales job". His approach strikes me as being the posterior byproduct of a large male bovine. I think your friend needs to have a talk with the builder and just let him know that that type of finish is not acceptable or that he will finish the piece himself with his finish of choice at an appropriate price discount. I wonder if the guy is trying to cover for perhaps underbidding the job or if he just hates doing finishing and is trying to take the easy way out?

I could be wrong, it's happened before, but I do know that a good talk with the builder is about due.

I didn't notice if it was said whether the guy was a pro. If he is a hobbiest, he can do as he wishes. Either way, if this is the only type finish he uses, I would have second thoughts about him using something with which he is inexperienced. He may also have had bad experiences with finishing cherry. There are a lot of reasons he might say this. I would want to spend a few minutes with him to get a feel for his capabilities and why he has this preference. I would think charges would be quite different for a simple oil finish versus a built up one. But I've never done any pro wood work so...

David

In my experience "tung oil finish" may mean almost anything. Raw tung oil is just a penetrating oil like raw linseed oil; it doesn't make a surface film, and it may never really dry. Re-oiling would make sense. Tung oil which has been cooked (polymerized) and/or has driers added may well cure to a pretty hard state. Tung oil finishes like this are often applied with a wipe-on technique that can only leave a very thin film on the surface of the wood. This is perhaps my favorite finish for pieces which won't see water. And then there are finishes called "tung oil" which are really intended for application by brush. They may have tung oil in them, but often include other resins like polyurethane. They make thicker films. "Re-oiling" this kind of finish probably doesn't help much at all; aged polyurethane is non-reactive enough that a new coat doesn't bond too well to it.

So you (and the crafstman) need to know more about the proposed finish before you make decisions.

In 1999, I made a curly cherry end table. I used 4 coats (or was that 7?) of Formby's "Tung Oil" which I am for certain is an oil-varnish blend. It has held up amazing well, so much so, I never plan on putting anything else on it again.

Cherry with an oil finish is beautiful. It deepens the color, and not only shows the grain, but emphasizes it. When cherry darkens over time, which it will, the table will change colors and develop an even nicer patina. A lot of people dislike staining cherry, as they feel they are doing a "disservice" to the wood. However, when $$ is changing hands, whoever has the $$ should decide what he or she wants.

As for me, I'm for low maintenance. I'm happy with a blend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ Filtz

The other thing I forgot is that cherry is supposed to be real finicky about stains and such. Can turn blotchy. That's why most people like to oil cherry. I think if you need to color cherry, it may be best to use dyes and/or pre-seal?

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Oil can give cherry a blotchy look too. If you don't like the blotchies use a film finish; shellac and lacquer are excellent. If you want to control the blotchies you can try flooding the surface with solvent first and then apply oil (or stain) or partially seal the surface with shellac, glue size, or a comercial pre-stain conditioner. As for coloring cherry, analines dyes work well, especially if sprayed. Shader coats also work well. But to me the best look in cherry is to wipe on an oil and immediately wipe it off (BLO:Tung:Turp in a 1:1:2 ratio), then apply a few coats of a naturally colored shellac (garnet, kusmi, lemmon, etc), followed by the topcoat of your choice (more shellac, lacquer, varnish, etc).

On Rare occasion I will go to someone specificaly because I like the work that that person does. It would be foolish of me to tell them how to do their job. That being said there is nothing wrong with asking questions. By asking qiuestions the maker can find out more about the customer and adjust the finished product to the useres likeing.

In this particular case it sounds as though the maker is specific on the finish.

Thanks

..Jim, I like Dave Andersons answer. There are 1001 ways to finish furniure. Besides that, the last thing I want to do, at this juncture in life, is constantly re-do my furniture. I have a lacquered cherry curio cabinet I made for LOML and it's very nice. Aging beautifully. Good luck with your decision.

I love you guys. Put a question out there and get everyone's opinion, albeit different ones. This thread will help my friend decide if he wants to keep going down this path. I'm not so convinced that I want to revisit the finish on my completed project, nor deal with the potential smell issue.

The guy bidding on the job only builds hand made pieces, professional. He is Amish and only works with hand tools and doesn't spray on finishes. He said that he does all his furniture this way and re oils them on a regular basis. His price for the piece is fair in my opinion.

Thanks again

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Todd Burch

In 1999, I made a curly cherry end table. I used 4 coats (or was that 7?) of Formby's "Tung Oil" which I am for certain is an oil-varnish blend.

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Don't be so certain. Nothing is certain when you try to differentiate between fact and marketing when referring to finishes. This is particularly true of the use of the words "tung oil'.

Formby's is a thinned varnish, pure and simple. It even says so right on the label. There is no real tung oil in it at all.

True tung oil comes from the nuts of a tree that grows in China--and some other parts of the world. A product that is a true tung oil will have a label that says either "pure" or "100%". If it doesn't say that on the label, IT ISN'T TRUE TUNG OIL. Forget about all the other baloney and look for one of those two words if you want to use a true tung oil. If the label contains any other chemicals, except a thinner, you are not getting a true tung oil.

"Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing expression for products that the manufacturer thinks will give you a finish like the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" may or may not contain some true tung oil, but most do not contain any true tung oil. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that it claims to give you the appearence of finish that results from tung oil. You're buying a "faux tung oil finish".

There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection.

Here are some oil/varnish mixtures:*
Deft Danish Oil
General Finishes' Sealacell
Behlen Danish Oil
Maloof Finish
Behr Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish
Minwax Tung Oil Finish
Minwax Antique Oil Finish
Velvit Oil
Watco Danish Oil
McCloskey Tung Oil Finish (contains pure tung oil, not linseed oil)

The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not have as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.

Here are some thinned varnishes:*
Minway Wiping Varnish
Watco Wiping Varnish
Formby's Tung Oil Finish
Zar Wipe-on Tung Oil
Val-Oil
Hope's Tung Oil Varnish
Gillespie Tung Oil
Waterlox
General Finishes' Arm R Seal
Jasco Tung Oil

One way to tell whether the product is an oil/varnish or a wiping varnish is to read the application instuctions. Oil/varnishes are applied, then given some time to set, then wiped dry. Wiping varnish products are wiped on an left to dry (no wiping off).

Finally, I'm not saying that any of these products are not good. In fact, they are a more protective and durable finish than any pure oil finish. They are what they are and can give you a good finish when properly applied.

* Products list courtesy of Bob Flexner