i am looking to acquire a molder in the not to distant future. has anyone used the williams hussey or the grizzly? how do they compare to each other?:confused:
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i am looking to acquire a molder in the not to distant future. has anyone used the williams hussey or the grizzly? how do they compare to each other?:confused:
W&H is the standard to which that particular type of machine is compared to...they are excellent. The ShopFox (somewhat of a clone of the W&H) seems to have garnered a nice following lately due to aggressive pricing, although there are changes a-foot on that particular machine I'm hearing.
BTW, Welcome to the 'Creek!!
Hi Abram,
I had occasion to play, er...use, with the W&H. It is a solid machine. You will need very good dust collection with it though. I had it hooked up to my Belfab and still got a few clogs along the way. The other thing about this machine is the noise. If you're using it in a residential setting, it better be during the day and around understanding neighbours. Knives aren't cheap either, so unless you're reproducing older moldings try to design projects around profiles you can reuse.
Welcome to the Creek!!!!!
Hi Abram,
I was in the same situation for a few months while researching the molder options. I finally purchased the Shop Fox variable speed last month during the sale price window - had numerous good recomendations. I just got word it is delivering tomorrow. So, I'd be happy to share my experiences with it but give me a few weeks as I've got to run 220 wiring plus other.
that's no joke about the noise. i haven't measured, but 100-150 db doesn't bother me all that much, and i can't stand next to my molder while it's cutting large profiles without earplugs (like 4-5" casings). i would suspect it goes up in excess of 200 db on the sniped ends of those.
in a ~6 hour day i can make about 200 gallons of sawdust, so that's a legitimate concern as well. i use an oneida cyclone. anything that's tedious to empty isn't worth using, or you'll spend as much time emptying bags as cutting wood.
the going rate on custom knives is about 40 dollars a square inch, last time i bought them. i have 6 total profiles in my house, all old and large (1/2" quarter round, 1x2" base cap, 4.5" casing, 3" casing, 1x2" door/window crown cap, and a 1x3" picture rail). all those knives plus 2 different sizes of back relief knives was about 700 dollars if i remember correctly.
I just received the shop fox molder two weeks ago, I spun it with straight knives to make sure it worked, did a fine job. I have not used it for moldings yet, I borrowed a set of knives from work but have been too busy to set them up. i have been getting a lesson from the machinist at work on how to set one up and mods that can/should be made to improve performance. The shop I work in has a W&H in the corner that sees little use, it was purchased for curved work, but everything now gets farmed out to a curved speciality shop locally.
It seems like the W&H is a better machine by most accounts. All present models offer multi pass capacity which involves a different infeed wheel set up, though the machinist at work was describing how to mod a classic Hussey, after which the Shop Fox is modeled quite exactly, to do multi pass.
Problem with an old W&H or a stock SHop Fox is they are not meant to pass the molding more than once or you may have insufficient feed roll pressure and an ensuing kickback/knife breakage/general bad things. Multi pass gives a smoother finish and little or no sanding and all present W&H models sold have this capacity. W$H does sell a multi pass retrofit kit but I don't know if it fits directly on the shop fox molder. I'm told that the W&H is a generally more solid machine for commercial use with a better motor (baldor) and gear box than the shop fox but I can't verify those claims one way or the other.
Not sure if this helps. I can tell you that the shop fox seems well built and substantial, is fit and finished well, and all adjustments are smooth and precise. I can also tell you that the W&H manual is available online and has more valuable set up info than the SHop Fox manual, and should you go with a shop fox it is worth a look.
i'm not sure about the shop fox and w&h, but on my woodmaster i don't have any trouble going down to within ~1/16th on the first pass, and finishing that last 1/16th on the final pass, which helps a bit for large/deep profiles. i don't see why you couldn't do the same on any molder such as this.
i assume the reason that they don't recommend multipass is a different roller design? on mine the rollers are rubber around a copper rod, and spring loaded with the tension adjustable, so you can feasibly have the rollers 1/2" or more below the cutting blade, which will give you feed pressure no matter the depth. is the shopfox/w&h different?
Hi NealQuote:
Originally Posted by Neal Clayton
The design of these type of molders is a little different than the "planer type" with four columns.
I owned and used a Foley Belsaw for years which is basic a smaller version of what you have and was able to slightly lower the infeed and outfeed rollers, OR adjust the tension on the roller springs via 4 nuts. With these type( shop fox -WH) the spring/roller assembly is much more rigid because of the 2 column design.
There are definately times when I miss the belsaw ( but nott the knife changes) for the simple fact that it was easy to sneak up on a profile with multiple passes by adjusting the infeed outfee rollers
A few years ago when I mentioned this, on this and other forums after buying a shop fox, people replied like I was a crazy person. and that one pass was fine. I disagreed then and I still do.
Its a very violent experience running some of these deep and wide profiles through these machines and I actually cracked a casting on my shop fox infeed roller in the middle of a 3000 lf. run for a catering hall. That sucked big time .
Woodstock internationals tech rep sent the part the next day( Kudos Randy) . When I mentioned to him about the multiple pass theory he sounded confused.
I feel a little vindicated now that Williams n Hussey ships there newer models with multiple pass on board. I'm glad for those buying it now and am happy they will have a better experience woodworking because of it.
Yup, different roller design, like William said. The shop fox stock is not meant for multi pass, because apparently you have insufficient feed roll pressure after the hogging pass to hold the work to the table. The W&H has a different set of springs with more adjustment that buys you an extra 3/16" to lower the in feed roller and increased pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Clayton
The machinist at work described to me a process for filing off some stops and changing the stock springs to get the multi pass capacity out of a stock older W&H, seems the same might work for the shop fox though I honestly don't fully understand what he was telling me to do and haven't had time to look into it. I bought it at the sale price for future use and haven't played with it much.
The same guy talked about adding hold down pads to the out feed end of a shop made bed board for multi pass on casings with significant difference between the high and low end of the profile like a door casing, keep the low end on the table and reduce chatter on the second pass, or even on a single pass operation. He runs a couple of Wadkin 7-Head thru molders where he uses similar techniques, seems to work well there. I have a though that a set of board buddies I have relegated to drawer filler may come into service for this purpose though i don't yet know if it will work.
Peter Quinn
i understand what your machinist friend is getting at with the file, you'd be approaching a similar design to what william is talking about. the bottom stop for the rollers on mine and the one william is talking about is a groove in the side of the machine itself that the rollers 'bottom out' on. if the w&h/shopfox design is the same, you file that groove deeper and put larger springs, that'll give you more downward travel on the rollers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Quinn
it seems that no matter which low end molder you buy some mechanical knowledge is a plus ;). i've swapped out about a dozen parts and re-engineered bits and pieces of mine as well.