Sapele + custom design welded steel legs = awesome side table

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Originally Posted by Mark Bolton

I can honestly say if I were building this table for my own use I would likely omit the flat bar cross members too but was just making the point that super freaky stuff can happen when your dealing with the public and its better to be prepared. Anyone selling furniture on the open market will hopefully have a liability policy protecting them but its better to not have to think about relying on it.

I agree with your second post that you have a bunch of options with regards to the leg orientation. I was wondering about an interwoven orientation where the two legs are skewed to a point where the members pass through each other (like a figure 8 so to speak). Could get structuraly complicated.

This steel and slab design is very common in many of the galleries I visit. It would definitely be worth quantifying your costs and see what some shops think they could retail them for. In my experience it tends to get difficult when you put pen to paper but hopefully you post your progress.

Good Luck

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Totally agree--if I were selling this, I'd do one cross member between the tops of hte legs, and that would make the base permanently stable on its own.

Definitely some cool possibilities with this design or similar designs that would incorporate interwoven legs. It would be cool to figure out some designs with that in mind.

I don't know if I'll really pursue trying to sell this stuff. Frankly, I'd have to get more equipment to make it feasible. And one issue is that this sucker (if I stuck with this type of size) is h-e-a-v-y. I mean, just the slab is heavy enough that one person can't really pick it up (it's too awkward).

But we'll see.

As for cost, kinda tough to figure with this since it was "scrap" from a larger project. But roughly, the two large Sapele slabs were $1200 total. But that included cutting them to size (36X72 and 46X72), planing, and rough sanding. This was a leftover piece from the thicker and longer slab.

But I'd guess that it's about 1/5th to 1/6th of the wood I bought, so at 1/6 that's $200 for the wood. Maybe $10 for the Waterlox I used on it (a guess) and about $40 for the steel. Virtually nothing for the wax ($.50 maybe?). A few bucks for the welding sticks I used.

So really, about $250 in consumable materials. I'd have to buy a welder and a metal-cutting bandsaw. And if I wanted to work with slabs THIS thick, a table saw (my circular saw won't quite cut 3 inches deep). Of course, I could use slightly thinner slabs.

I really have no idea what this could retail for (assuming the extra cross bar uniting the legs was added).

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

Totally agree--if I were selling this, I'd do one cross member between the tops of hte legs, and that would make the base permanently stable on its own.

Definitely some cool possibilities with this design or similar designs that would incorporate interwoven legs. It would be cool to figure out some designs with that in mind.

I don't know if I'll really pursue trying to sell this stuff. Frankly, I'd have to get more equipment to make it feasible. And one issue is that this sucker (if I stuck with this type of size) is h-e-a-v-y. I mean, just the slab is heavy enough that one person can't really pick it up (it's too awkward).

But we'll see.

As for cost, kinda tough to figure with this since it was "scrap" from a larger project. But roughly, the two large Sapele slabs were $1200 total. But that included cutting them to size (36X72 and 46X72), planing, and rough sanding. This was a leftover piece from the thicker and longer slab.

But I'd guess that it's about 1/5th to 1/6th of the wood I bought, so at 1/6 that's $200 for the wood. Maybe $10 for the Waterlox I used on it (a guess) and about $40 for the steel. Virtually nothing for the wax ($.50 maybe?). A few bucks for the welding sticks I used.

So really, about $250 in consumable materials. I'd have to buy a welder and a metal-cutting bandsaw. And if I wanted to work with slabs THIS thick, a table saw (my circular saw won't quite cut 3 inches deep). Of course, I could use slightly thinner slabs.

I really have no idea what this could retail for (assuming the extra cross bar uniting the legs was added).

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Sure,
The material is generally almost trivial in comparison to the final cost with the exception of extremely exotic materials or extreme fabrication. The main costs are usually shop time (hours) and overhead. This of course includes everything, getting the materials, all the way to billing the final customer.

Id guess in the right location the retail price could be hefty but when you start adding in even $300-$400 a day (40-50/hr for a man and shop) for a single man, shop, consumables, overhead, and so on, your cost adds up.

Yep, that makes sense.

I probably have a day in it total. Obviously, haven't factored in other costs (biz license, electricity, etc.)

I've freelanced marketing/advertising creative for a long time, so I'm fairly familiar with the way real costs of doing business can add up. And the difference between a hobby and a job.

Like I said, I really don't know if it's feasible. What would you estimate (the best you can, based on just seeing pics) that this might go for? Honestly, I'm just curious. While i've been on the buying end of things at times, I've never tried to sell this sort of thing.

Nor do I really wanna sell this particular piece. I really like it a lot, and kinda dig that it's the same piece of wood as my island will be.

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

Yep, that makes sense.

I probably have a day in it total. Obviously, haven't factored in other costs (biz license, electricity, etc.)

I've freelanced marketing/advertising creative for a long time, so I'm fairly familiar with the way real costs of doing business can add up. And the difference between a hobby and a job.

Like I said, I really don't know if it's feasible. What would you estimate (the best you can, based on just seeing pics) that this might go for? Honestly, I'm just curious. While i've been on the buying end of things at times, I've never tried to sell this sort of thing.

Nor do I really wanna sell this particular piece. I really like it a lot, and kinda dig that it's the same piece of wood as my island will be.

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Its hard to say James. So much of it is dependent on location. If you get in a hot market who knows. I have seen live edge/steel dinning tables in the six figures. Smaller ones anywhere from 800 to 2K. Its really just what the market will bear but again thats retail/gallery pricing. I have no idea what the maker got for the tables.

Its just a guess but I'd guess a day at a table like that is extremely optimistic but thats just me and my shop. Not a critique but as you said, you'd have to likely figure out a better solution for the corners but a miter wont work with the skew. The top and bottom members would have to be a radially twisted parallelogram rather than a rectangular box. Im not sure how you'd maintain the twisted frame look with clean closed corners with rectangular profiles. Again, not saying that your doing it, but its fun to talk about none the less. ;-)

For me I would think if I were guessing at a table like that, once the kinks were worked out, a single would be a couple days with fabrication, finishing the top, heat finishing the legs, cross members, and so on but that could be greatly shortened if you were doing multiples.

It'd never hurt if you got serious to put a backdrop behind it and shoot some photos and just swing in to a few places and kick it around. Never know.

Yep, fun to kick around. I may do just that--some better pics w/a background and better lighting. I'm an amateur photog so I can pull that off.

I think the legs are a fairly easy fix. Just requires either two cuts or a compound cut, and I'm not really sure how hard that is on steel. It's easy enough w/wood. I may do another wood mockup w/1x3 pieces. But I think that if they were cut at 45s after the 70-degree cut, that would do it. Certainly, working up a jig would make it far easier. All four pieces in each leg are the the shape/length/cut. So theoretically, I could cut a bunch of them, wax them to keep them from rusting, and then weld them into various shapes. But that's a good point--I'd absolutely want/require closed ends on a piece I was selling.

INteresting to ponder!

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

Yep, fun to kick around. I may do just that--some better pics w/a background and better lighting. I'm an amateur photog so I can pull that off.

I think the legs are a fairly easy fix. Just requires either two cuts or a compound cut, and I'm not really sure how hard that is on steel. It's easy enough w/wood. I may do another wood mockup w/1x3 pieces. But I think that if they were cut at 45s after the 70-degree cut, that would do it. Certainly, working up a jig would make it far easier. All four pieces in each leg are the the shape/length/cut. So theoretically, I could cut a bunch of them, wax them to keep them from rusting, and then weld them into various shapes. But that's a good point--I'd absolutely want/require closed ends on a piece I was selling.

INteresting to ponder!

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You may want to draw it to see it. A compound won't work with the skew. You could do a bunch of grinding and filling but when you add the lean in therr the vertical legs of the horizontal members would habe to lean in opposing directions end to end.

May get it close and fill it with weld but it won't be a clean miter.

I need to draw or just make it with wood to see, but I understand what you're talking about. But still, I think that it'll fit right, without gaps. Maybe I'm just not seeing the issues, though I understand how they happen when you talk about compound angles like that.

But when viewed from the side (straight on from the side), the legs form a box. So the front legs and back legs are vertical (in that they're not canted front to back, just side to side, which you can't see from the side), and obviously the top and bottom spars are horizontal.

So if you think about the front upright and the bottom of the box, they'd "normally" be straight up, and straight back when viewed from the front. These legs are simply angled 20 degrees to the left for both--the upright is 20 degrees canted left (still straight upright in the other dimension), and the bottom "leg" is canted 20 degrees to the left (still straight horizontal of course).

I dunno...in my brain when I envision how that changes the opening of the cut, each opens up exactly the same way, which makes for a perfect mate.

But again..maybe I'm envisioning it wrong.

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

But again..maybe I'm envisioning it wrong.

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Not the easiest to show but these are at 70 degrees, I didnt adjust for the compound so they are mitered at 45 but you should be able to see it. The vertical legs of your horizontal tubes would have to lean in opposing directions end to end (envision a twizler)

Attachment 304591Attachment 304592Attachment 304594

Looks like you have that lower piece going straight back. It doesn't. It goes back at the same 70 degree angle, in the same direction as the upright.

So the upright goes from lower left to upper right (in your example), and the horizontal piece on the floor goes from front left to right rear.

I'll have to mock it up with wood and 2x4s as a sample.

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Originally Posted by James Dudley

Looks like you have that lower piece going straight back. It doesn't. It goes back at the same 70 degree angle, in the same direction as the upright.

So the upright goes from lower left to upper right (in your example), and the horizontal piece on the floor goes from front left to right rear.

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Right but regardless, the vertical faces of your horizontal members (the members that sit against the under side of the table, and the floor) are just that, vertical. Those faces are 90 degrees to the floor. The mating faces on the legs are not vertical, they are leaning at +/-20 degrees the Z axis AND meeting the horizontal members which are swung to 20 degrees in the Y. You can have one, or the other, but not both. They are not on the same plane, which means they wont fold with a simple miter. There would be protruding corners that would have to be clipped off, and odd facets/points at the joint.

The only way for that to be a miter would be if the horizontal members were twisted on thier long axis to +20 degrees on one end and -20 degrees on the other so they meet the legs on the same plane.

Rally nice table. I wish I knew how to weld!