You'd better not give it up. Jessem seems to have stopped making the Master-R-Slide. :(
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I say this a lot but I guess this is one of those questions or advice providing situations where nobody can tell you how you like to work. You just have to try them out and see what you like. Contact Felder or Minimax and they will have a few names for you so you can go visit someone locally that has what you are looking at or at least close. A cabinet shop usually has the large 10' sliders that really don't give you an appreciation for the middle ground.
What I don't understand is that when someone is standing at the decision of spending $3k+ on a saw they would not just buy the Hammer versus X,Y,orZ. (Hammer is on sale right now by the way) The price difference is minimal and the amount of engineering you get is not comparable. Yes, the technology in a Sawstop is pretty cool and worth it if just that one time it saves your fingers or worse but the Sawstop doesn't prevent kickback or reduce exposure to the other injuries that come from a high speed spinning blade anymore than any other reputable brands out there today. Take away the technology of the Sawstop and it is just a cabinet saw.
I have a Felder combo and I have had it for a year. I learn how to use it more efficiently every time I turn the power on or just stop and think that there has to be a better way. Those that don't like sliders for ripping likely have a very large capacity, dedicated sheet cutting saw with the outrigger and massive crosscut fence on all the time so you have to walk a 1/2 mile just to pull the stock off the outfeed side. Rod has a nice setup and had I not found a good deal used I would have gone that route without hesitation. I actually had the A3-31 and was just saving up for the B3 when the deal of a lifetime knocked on my door for a Felder.
Don't think of the slider length as limiting unless you are dead set on using the slider to rip sheet goods lenghtwise. You can build a carrier for hardwood stock ripping to overcome the slider length limitation. As long as you can get 48" of travel (through the blade) out of the slider it should be fine for sheet goods. I have never had to put an 8 foot piece of ply on the saw and cut end to end but I am not a professional either (far from it!). I have made a few cabinets though and never found it limiting. To me it is much easier to rip sheet goods down to width using a circular saw and take it to the slider for refinment. If my saw wasn't in the basement I would have no hesitation throwing the sheet on the saw though and doing the width cuts first and then turning it to do lengthwise cuts. Always using the slider. Fingers far away with stock nicely clamped down. Another nice thing about the sliders is that you can add a lot of stuff to them. Of course at a significant cost but the sky is really the limit. Especially when you get into the partial or full combos.
If you want a slider and dedicate yourself to learning to use it efficiently then you will never look back. If your personality is that you don't like change then pass on a slider because it will only lead to testing your patience and your work will suffer. There is no disrespect meant in that statement to those that have tried and don't like it. It is really a personal preference thing. As long as you can cut wood safely and you enjoy what you are doing then nothing else matters.
As per usual Rod has come through with the dimensions of his B3 Winner (I suppose you are already snowed in up there and you have nothing else to do, but your advice is always on point and accurate; thank you.) I have watched all the video on You Tube of sliding table saws. I went to WoodCraft and played with a Exaktor EX60 they had set up and think I have this pretty well figured out. Well, as much as one would have kicking the tires of a car and sitting in it at the showroom.
My question to those having experience with these ways of moving wood past a blade is this: Where does the improvement in accuracy come from?
For those of you who have had this Damascus transformation and are no longer looking back, I would like to know what the physics or the bio-mechanics are that cause the enthusiasm and witnessing I find as I dig through these types of discussions and the advertising of the manufacturers who herald a new dawn of "turning even large heavy sheet goods into child's play."
One thought I had is that there is no need for the feather boards, rolling hold downs, etc. that stabilize a piece as you push it past the blade on a stationary top along a fence that supports only one edge. With a sliding table the piece is fixed in place and one hopes that the jig is also fixed in relation to the blade. Furthermore you don't have to rely on a factory edge because the jig/sliding table is the reference.
I am going to build one soon, sort of like someone reading about a boat who has never sailed. So any further information on the advantages of this method would be helpful. Something other than "smooth, stable, accurate" which speaks to the experience but not as much to the underlying mechanics of why this is cool beans.
Is there anything else that I am missing?
I had the General 350 with their outrigger-style sliding table. Here is where the accuracy comes in: The entire weight of the wood is supported by the slider, so when pushed past the blade the wood position is relatively fixed. And your force is applied to the slider, not to the board itself. It is a little different when ripping long boards.
For ripping, the far end of the board is trapped in a device called a 'shoe', and you do push on the board. The slider supports the full weight of the wood.
When doing crosscuts, you have a crosscut fence which is usually about 30 inches long or more. On the Hammer I believe it is nearly 48". This substitutes for a Miter Gauge on regular saws, and is far superior because the guidance comes from such a long reference surface (compared to a Miter Gauge). Here too, the wood is supported by the slider. You are pushing on the slider, not the wood. This makes a big difference. It is quite easy to set the angles on a Crosscut Fence for fractions of a degree.
A slider is a rolling platform hinged to the tablesaw body. The wood doesn't move independently is it does with either a Rip Fence or Miter Gauge.
On another forum, someone said that Jessem was going to start making them again in 1-2 months. Of course, I didn't verify, just saying that it is possible.
Hey Jordan, I am not going to stray too much off topic, but if you do a lot of sheet goods and have the space for a slider.. have you considered a CNC that can do a full sheet of plywood. That's the way I went, and now cutting up plywood is a dream, plus you can do a lot of other cool stuff with it.
You'd still want to keep your existing table saw though.
Interesting idea!!!
If you haven't worked a slider, it would help visiting a shop that has one. Because of the investment. For about a half year when I was starting out, I would go over to Anderson Plywood near my home in West Los Angeles and watch their guys slice plywood sheets on their huge Altendorf slider.
The equipment was so productive, they needed one guy standing to remove the offcuts as the next board was sliced. They could go through a whole stack of 3/4 ply in just minutes. But they had the need for that capacity. That is the question everyone has to ask themselves. A slider capable of ripping an 8x4' sheet of ply has a large footprint, not to mention the clearance for the slider sweep. These are things that you had better see for yourself, because they are not easily explained by statistics on a sheet of paper. The mind doesn't readily grasp the dimensions involved.
And I must say that after a sizeable investment I sold my slider because I didn't need that much machine. If I were crosscutting stiles and rails for 40 cabinet doors, or face frames for a whole kitchen, it would make sense. Great for production work.
Nobody mentioned it here, but one important feature of a slider is safety. Your hands are easily 2 feet away from the blade, and out of the line of fire in case of a kickback.
i plan on attending the Felder show Oct. 20 to get some hands on and try and wrap my head around this type of machine...everyone has been very helpful...thanks
As a regular cruiser on eBay & C/L, don't overlook the deep savings from a used one. I see Felder and Minimax at firesale prices regularly. Cabinet shops are being hard hit by the economy. Be sure of your power utility choices. Most of these machines run on 3-phase. If you can't get that, you'll have to buy a Phase Convertor, and those run about $1000, I believe.
Mark Duginske has a couple of Felder saw shapers for sale now. A shaper is a great option on a used slider as it is a cheap add on. Dave
That's a great group up in Deleware. In my opinion, they redefine the idea of cusomer service, and I'm not talking about handing out free stuff or polite talk on the phone. I had them put together a retrofit for my K975 last year, and what they gave me was put together in a very thoughtful way.
where does one go to investigate the sliders mark has for sale??
They are on CL. allofcraigs.com
Most of the Felder stuff I see online used is offered both on eBay and Craigslist. Do a Google search for SearchTempest. It searches Craigslist postings throughout North America. If you are looking for Felder, be sure to get the Mobility Kit and whatever tooling the seller has.
I had spent a lot of time drawing up the plans for a DIY sliding table saw jig based on the sound advise and help I found here and before I pulled the trigger on a +$300 order of aluminum from 80/20 checked allofcraigs.com out of curiosity. I quickly saw an Excalibur 60" table saw extension jig for $150 (list is about $900) from a very nice fellow out of state and he is packing it up, depriving me of the frustration and exhilaration of implementing my design. Now all I get to do is figure out what this mode of working is all about and get some actual projects done.
I am unsure if this is what some herald as a gloat or if I should be singing Que Sera, Sera along with Doris Day.