No version 2.0 please.
I really enjoy your website - but that convinces me that you should stick mainly to tool reviews.
I still admire your intentions for the test though.
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No version 2.0 please.
I really enjoy your website - but that convinces me that you should stick mainly to tool reviews.
I still admire your intentions for the test though.
Tom, I'm glad you were not hurt.
As a caution to all who read this, please be aware that a splitter or riving knife will NOT prevent kickbacks. While either may help mitigate the severity of such events, they are not a guarantee of safety - not even close. For maximum safety, develop methods of working that guide the wood into the saw as straight as possible and that allow for no divergence from a straight path that is parallel to the blade. Your method should be so convenient and so workable that you can and will use it every time you operate the saw, without fail.
Short handled push blocks like the sanding pad used in the video leave your hands too close to the blade - we all saw how that worked. Any kind of metal stick is to be avoided - the last thing you want is metal shrapnel spit back at you, or a metal arrow to pierce your body. For push sticks, wood or plastic are good choices. I use an 18" long piece of wood about 3/8" by 1 1/2" with a small notch in the end. This pusher is placed on the piece to be cut such that it is to the blade side of the center of the wood. This directs the forces applied to push the wood toward the fence, keeping it there and not swiveling back into the path of the blade while additionally holding the wood down on the table surface.
I don't hold the pusher with the end in my palm, I let the end extend back out of my grip so that a kickback does not ram the stick into my palm. The pusher is purposely selected so that its not very stout and it has the edges eased to prevent cuts. My hand is far away from the blade and if something bad happens, the pusher will escape my grip without injury. Should all that fail, the stick will break before transmitting damaging force to my hand.
The main idea I'd like to share here is that anyone using a table saw or other such tool needs to spend some time thinking about how to use the tool safely. Your safe operating technique, used every time you run the tool is what will save you.
Henry, I agree, there are no guarantees, but let me be the first to pile on about the use of small notch push sticks. In my book they are a no-no. I had one my son made in JH wood shop twenty some years ago. It helped start a nice fire in the fireplace several years ago after it finally broke. They do absolutely nothing to hold down the FRONT of a short board. And if (when) the blade starts to lift up the front of the board, it is usually not a good thing, therefore the migration to other methods which not only push, but hold down the board such as the Gripper (which I have not used but comes highly recommended) or the type of push block shown in the first 2 pics on post #21. Or you can simply make a long notch push stick with a notch at least 5 inches long. On short boards I will use a push block in conjunction with a feather board or a scrap of wood to hold the material against the fence until it passes the splitter. And once the board passes the riving knife or splitter, a violent kickback is unlikely as the board cannot rotate into the blade uncontrolled as in the video.
I understand the theory behind it, but I find Sam's push prick downright scary. Just my opinion.
I agree, with the caveat that you have to be cutting a piece long enough to span the length of the exposed blade and reach the riving knife before the cut is complete. My kickback injury (posted earlier in this thread) happened while my riving knife was installed, but it was because I was cutting a very short piece of wood (really really stupid!!). It kicked back before it reached the riving knife.
Note: The requests for the kickback video have far exceeded our ability to deal with individually. I am working around the clock to get a DVD (Blu-Ray also I think) put together and into production that we are going to sell through our store at the lowest price we can and still cover the cost. As soon as this is done we will have it listed in my on line store. We simply cannot handle this on a one-on-one basis anymore.
Yes, that is awesome video. I have had the kickback happen 2 times, once almost took off a finger (small chuck of skin) and the second left a good bruise on my chest from the piece of wood flying, it ended up in the back yard about 50 feet AFTER hitting me...never again!
I've become a huge fan of the Gripper, and use it constantly. I still have a similar scar on my abdomen from a kickback incident last year. Outfeed table slightly too high caused it. I'll never forget it.
I've taken care of many people over the years with severed digits from table saws. Breaks my heart every time I see it. I really wish there was a foolproof safety measure that eliminates kickback. We've gone a long way with the riving knife, and the SawStop gets big credit for saving digits it's way, but we still have some way to go.
Tom, you really do get serious points for posting the video. In medicine, occassionally there are very instructive case reports caused by someone doing something notably bad/dumb. The easiest course in maintaining your ego is to just to never publish the case. The whole world doesn't have to associate your name with a bizarre complication (the classic medical one is the NG tube in the brain). So huge kudos for having the intestinal fortitude to perform the public service and post the video. Hats off to you.
Please don't produce a "hand gun cleaning" video; although your posthumous sales would likely be a record breaker.
FWW covered this topic years ago and enough thought was put into the production of the piece that no one was hurt or looked foolish. The video posted in this thread is not instructional but cautionary.
Completely understandable to be scared by a pointed metal push stick. I know that any kind of accident is possible regardless of how "careful" or "prepared " you are. Table saw accidents are explosive and no one can be that prepared, as Tom's video so vividly demonstrates. I don't offer my suggestion as the best of the worst, just a very good one for me and perhaps for someone else. Having said that and having tried every manner of push stick or pads - they all have their deficiencies. The one I use has given me the GREATEST CONTROL of any. The biggest downside of most notched push sticks is that they only hold your stock down at the very end and give you no lateral resistance whatsoever. My push stick allows me to secure the board 4" or 5" away from the end with a secure down force that allows me to push in any direction I need to maintain control. It is a very small contact point that lets me hold down smaller stock or profiled stock without getting anywhere near the blade. I have NEVER nicked off the end of one of these in over 20 years of use.
I do have Table Saw rules that I adhere to very strictly (and insist that everyone who has ever worked with/for me follow as well - though I do not impose the use of "my push stick" on anyone). Safety and comfort with a procedure is too personal. Just a few rules that have guided me trough my professional career behind a table saw: 1st - I don't pass any piece of wood through the saw that is not longer than the exposed blade. I want as much bearing on the fence as possible so I try to keep every piece longer than I need until it is ripped to size and plan my stock use accordingly. I would rather throw away 3" of a board than 3 fingers any day. 2) Never rip a board in such a way that a pointed cut off is facing towards me - thick end to the driver - always. 3) Don't push one piece of stock through with another leaving your cutoffs to fall to the floor or cross cut a bunch of ends leaving the cut offs to lay around the table top until swept away. 4) If I must achieve a narrow rip (less than 3/8") I use all kinds of strategies to avoid that even if I must set the saw fence a few extra times in order to leave the big part of the board at the fence with my less than 3/8" piece being the cutoff. Obviously these are just a few - too many safety precautions that are almost second nature to me to recall as I sit here writing. Safety is the PRIME CONSIDERATION for me - everything else, economy, speed, easy, are all far behind as a priority if they compromise safety. I would never have done Tom's cut even without the "controlled" demonstration - the length of that piece of wood violated my rule # 1.
OK, enough of what you already know. Just adding to an important discussion. Thanks.
Sam
so now I have to buy this to see it?Quote:
Note: Demand for this video has gone way beyond what we can handle individually. We are in the process of creating a DVD
For what it's worth, they run a class at the Kansas City Woodworkers Guild in table saw safety. Using that pink hard foam insulation, they purposely reproduce all sorts of kickbacks so people can get a feel for what not to do. I've never taken the class but I guess foam flies all over the place and a great time is had by all.
wow, that was a nasty video and amazing how close your fingers came!
that reminded me of my first days in shop class back in high school where our
instructor had a jar of formaldehyde with two fingers inside of it hanging above
the table saw and was a good reminder every time we used the saw to do it
correctly!
Hey Tom, why not just put it into the cloud?
IMO some push devices are worse than none at all. The classic "PUSH STICK" and derivatives thereof do not provide adequate stock control since they hold down only the back of the board. As far as I'm concerned, an educator demonstrating with such a device or a manufacturer selling or including one with a saw is toeing the line of negligence. It's simply not the best tool for the job, just looking at pictures of them makes me uncomfortable. A pointed metal rod? Not in my shop.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...d=224323&stc=1 http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...d=224324&stc=1 http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...d=224325&stc=1 http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...d=224326&stc=1
An effective push device provides sufficient surface area and control geometry to hold stock down while pushing it forward. There is physical connection with both the top and the back of the stock being cut (not just friction on top from a rubber pad) and the users's hand is kept a safe distance from the blade. Entrapping the user's hand in the device itself should be avoided (as Tom's video demonstrates, a push device can actually pull a user's hand into a spinning blade in the event of a kickback.) A single design will likely not do all tasks equally well.
There are many good push devices to be bought, they're also easily made. Since these things do get cut up in routine use, they shouldn't be precious. The Gripper seems like an effective design, but at the rate things get damaged in our student shop, making them ourselves is more cost effective. We make the first below and a couple other iterations by the dozens on our cnc and toss them when they get chewed up.
Attachment 224367 Attachment 224366 Attachment 224368Attachment 224369
-kg
The first one pictured above (and re-posted here below) is very nice but in use it needs to be placed on the half of the stock nearest the blade. Pushing in the position as shown in the picture will result in the stock being directed away from the fence and into the blade. I suspect you did not mean to show it this way but only to stand it up for the photo. Without words though, the picture says something else.
The other thing is that most of this thread has revolved around little scraps of wood that ought to be burned or discarded. That's my official position, but I do the same frequently and sometimes worse. Until you can figure out a really fool proof way to saw small scraps you're much better off not doing it at all. By the time a piece of wood gets to the around the size of our palm (and maybe not that small) it is too small to be cut safely on a table saw.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachme...7&d=1329699315
I can not believe that anyone would be dumb enough to do that. While it is somewhat instructional, it is just dumb. He came so close to cutting his finger.
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing that.
For those asking where they can get aftermarket splitters or riving knives, I got a set of splitters for my Jet ProShop from http://www.leestyron.com/sharksplitter.php. They're great.
Knowing what I know now, I wish I had purchased a table saw with a riving knife instead of the ProShop. With splitters, unless you make custom ZCIs with glued in splitters at various distances, you are always likely to have the splitter far enough away from the sawblade to render it ineffective. Riving knife OTOH follows the blade very closely.
Here is a link that might prove useful for an aftermarket conversion:http://www.garymkatz.com/ToolReviews/riving_knife.html
Tom, I'm glad you weren't hurt, but let's be realistic about what really happened here.
The reason your hand came close to the blade is because when you twisted your hand to cause the kickback, you moved your hand toward the blade, and you were standing in an off-balance position that didn't limit your reach.
I'm still a firm believer that standing in such a way as to try to stay "out of the line of fire" means that the user has to use unnatural arm motions that could put hands near the blade in the (now likely) event of a kickback. It just doesn't allow for good control of the workpiece. Stand behind the workpiece, just offline of the blade and push straight through. With wider pieces, I'll push through with my right hand, narrower pieces get a push stick.
It's kind of like having a bad accident jumping from a plane without a parachute, then declaring that jumping from the plane is dangerous...
WOW. Scary ! I had a kick incident 1 time and that was enough scared the crap outta me. Glad you didn't get hurt !!!!