Behr topcoat products

[Prashun Patel]

Have any of you tried the polyurethanes or varnishes by Behr? I notice they've replaced the Varethane products on the HD shelves.

They're compellingly priced...

[Steve Schoene]

Haven't seen them. Can't find them on the Behr web pages. Compellingly priced is not a good recommendation for finishes where you quite often get what you pay for.

[Prashun Patel]

I know. But Behr paint has gotten good reviews in the past, and I was just curious.

[Brian Peters]

Behr is a cheap home owner grade paint company; I wouldn't be caught using any of their finishes. Get away from the borg! Go to a sherwin williams or benjamin moore paint center.

[Howard Acheson]

Behr continues to be among the top rated paints as tested by Consumer Reports. Valspar, Kilz and Olympic are also highly rated for many paint types. Benjamin Moore and Pratt & Lambert are in the middle to lower ranking in the CU tests.

Paints are in a period of great flux as the manufacturers attempt to meet state's VOC regulations. What were high rated paints in the past may not be as highly rated now.

However, no one paint manufacturer is rated better in all categories. Paints from the same manufacturer vary widely by type.

[Neal Clayton]

without derailing the thread on a huge list of examples, there's a multitude of legitimate ways to dismiss the results of consumer reports reviews. their criteria are flawed, in this case they're aimed specifically at only borg products and only novice use. and they gladly change criteria from year to year to make results seem consistent rather than admitting flaws in past criteria.

they mean, literally, nothing.

[Al Wasser]

My neighbor used Behr paint on his bedroom. He will never use it again!

[Howard Acheson]

My neighbor used Behr paint on his bedroom. He will never use it again!

Just curious, what were the problems? Was it an oil based or a latex paint? Was it recently?

[Joel Goodman]

Second B Moore paint. Painting involves so much prep work that the cost of the paint is a minor factor in the total job -- go for the good stuff!

[Pat Germain]

without derailing the thread on a huge list of examples, there's a multitude of legitimate ways to dismiss the results of consumer reports reviews. their criteria are flawed, in this case they're aimed specifically at only borg products and only novice use. and they gladly change criteria from year to year to make results seem consistent rather than admitting flaws in past criteria.

they mean, literally, nothing.

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, Neal. But I know of no better source for testing consumer products than Consumers Union. (They publish Consumer Reports magazine. If you're looking for tests for industrial products, CR is not the source.) To test exterior paint, they paint many panels and expose them to sunlight and weather for many months. For interior paint, they paint many walls and scrub them to remove multiple marks and stains likely to appear in the typical home. What would be a better way to test paint?

The builder of my house used Sherwin Williams paint exclusively. The exterior stuff seems to be holding up well after eight years. Yet, many houses around me are in desperate need of a paint job. This would suggest the durability largely depends on the color. My experience with the Sherwin Williams interior paint is disappointing. CR's testing of paints has put Sherwin Williams toward the bottom. Their testing of Behr puts it toward the top. Their results are exactly the same as mine.

Sorry, but just because a product is sold at the BORG doesn't mean it's junk. And just because it's sold at a specialty store doesn't mean it's of top quality. Sherwin Williams, for example, sells a lot of paint to contractors at a very reasonable price. That's their bread and butter. Contractors use it because it's cheap and effective and not because it's the best quality.

In my previous house, I used many gallons of Behr interior paint with very good results. I haven't tried Behr wood finishes, but I'd be willing to do so. So far, I haven't found anything better than General Finishes products. I gave up on anything from Minwax decades ago.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm sure gonna give them a try. I'm a Benjamin Moore snob, though, and don't much care for Behr. The real reason, though, is bkz I like BMoore's Historical Colors collection; makes it easy to select a coordinating color for the next room in my house. Has nothing to do with quality - although I have no complaints w/ BMoore quality.

[Neal Clayton]

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, Neal. But I know of no better source for testing consumer products than Consumers Union. (They publish Consumer Reports magazine. If you're looking for tests for industrial products, CR is not the source.) To test exterior paint, they paint many panels and expose them to sunlight and weather for many months. For interior paint, they paint many walls and scrub them to remove multiple marks and stains likely to appear in the typical home. What would be a better way to test paint?

The builder of my house used Sherwin Williams paint exclusively. The exterior stuff seems to be holding up well after eight years. Yet, many houses around me are in desperate need of a paint job. This would suggest the durability largely depends on the color. My experience with the Sherwin Williams interior paint is disappointing. CR's testing of paints has put Sherwin Williams toward the bottom. Their testing of Behr puts it toward the top. Their results are exactly the same as mine.

Sorry, but just because a product is sold at the BORG doesn't mean it's junk. And just because it's sold at a specialty store doesn't mean it's of top quality. Sherwin Williams, for example, sells a lot of paint to contractors at a very reasonable price. That's their bread and butter. Contractors use it because it's cheap and effective and not because it's the best quality.

In my previous house, I used many gallons of Behr interior paint with very good results. I haven't tried Behr wood finishes, but I'd be willing to do so. So far, I haven't found anything better than General Finishes products. I gave up on anything from Minwax decades ago.

my problem with CR's reviews are in the details, or lack thereof.

i'm no professional painter, mind you, but even i can see glaring lack of information in CR's reviews. vertical cling? variation in durability depending on primer used? how well does it level itself? how long does it take to cure? these things i've never seen in a consumer reports article about paint. i'm sure a pro painter could point out many more.

stain resistance and resistance to scrubbing damage? why do i need consumer reports to test this? enamels are durable and resistant to penetration by foreign materials, water based latex paints are not, and are more 'not' depending on how flat the finish is. this has nothing to do with brand, it has to do with the composition of the paint. if these are a concern, where is a test of flat enamels? this would be useful. the average person who makes a paint decision based on CR probably doesn't know that such a thing exists. therefore they're not getting very good information from their consumer product review source in my book.

and they felt the need to grade paints based on their ability to cover a dark existing paint? first off, a single coat is never enough, so this doesn't matter. secondly, of course white won't cover a dark brown in one coat, and of course a pastel or other darker color to start with will cover it more. these have nothing to do with paint quality.

as for exterior paints, many factors can influence how well exterior paint holds up. for instance i've still got lead based paint from over 50 years ago on the exterior of my house. and it still looks fine. however if i were to paint over it tomorrow with any modern paint i would put myself into a 10 year cycle of repainting, for the first couple of rounds, and then probably a 5 year cycle, and then have to consider a complete removal. because i'd be combining two paints that are on a basic level incompatible with each other, and every attempt to solve that with more paint will make the paint fail even more.


here's a perfect example of all of the above...

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...6-10783085_ITM

they claim to test durability and stain resistance, and at the same time stated...

"(We didn't test oil based paints, which is an insignificant part of the market.)"

that perfectly sums up CR's expertise (lack thereof) with paint.

[Pat Germain]

I think your looking at paint from a proffessional's perspective, Neal, which I undersand.

I'm in CR's corner on this one. They are correct. The vast majority of consumers use latex paint and not oil based paint. And there is a difference between brands as to how well they cover dark colors and how well they can be cleaned. For a typical family with kids and pets, how well a paint can be cleaned matters a lot. Different brands of paint have different cleaning characteristics.

Latex paints all dry in about the same time.

[Rob Cooper]

I have used just about every major paint brand out there on rental properties over the past 14 years. Every manufacturer has a good and bad paint, primer, sealer, waterproofer, etc. I prefer Valspar and BM for quality, but have had very good performance from Behr. I would not dismiss a new Behr product without trying it. They may make or buy and re-label a great finish at a Borg price. Sometimes economies of scale really do benefit the consumer. Try it, if it stinks coat some shop jigs, etc.

[Neal Clayton]

I think your looking at paint from a proffessional's perspective, Neal, which I undersand.

I'm in CR's corner on this one. They are correct. The vast majority of consumers use latex paint and not oil based paint. And there is a difference between brands as to how well they cover dark colors and how well they can be cleaned. For a typical family with kids and pets, how well a paint can be cleaned matters a lot. Different brands of paint have different cleaning characteristics.

Latex paints all dry in about the same time.

i'm not a pro painter actuallly, just had to learn about it since i have a very old house to maintain, and it's pretty easy to find things that aren't compatible with their older counterparts, paint being the most obvious. i'm looking at having to hire or rent a pellet blaster in the near future to remove failing latex paint from an entire stucco house, because the people who lived here before didn't understand what could be painted over what. and if they read consumer reports, they still wouldn't know.

i don't hate consumer reports for no reason, in fact i wish their reviews were more detailed and specific than they are, especially with things like this since it's not feasible for a non-pro to test paint effectively. i don't have a means of deciding which paint to use other than asking pro painters, and pro painters have learned by trial and error as well. if consumer reports did more with their reviews to appeal to pros, they'd do everyone a favor.

but i think they over simplify their reviews in this instance, and leave out products and details that should be tested.