Designing a shop - help

[Prashun Patel]

2nd building is preferable, IMHO. Quieter for the other occupants.

If the design of yr house is still open, I like the idea of building the shop as a connected addition to the garage. This allows you to use the existing driveway for deliveries to the shop. I'd separate it with a large slider that can be closed to separate dust.
This also allows the shop and garage to share some temporary co-storage space - which is always an issue for me.

If I ever set up a new shop, I'll put the tablesaw smack in the middle of the room with at least 8feet infeed, outfeed, and sidefeed clearance.

I'd combo my miterbench and router table and provide 8ft clearance on either side.

[Bill Keehn]

Rick,
last month I was only a few days away from closing on a lake front house for my parents with an acreage until the water test came back positive for E. Coli. After that the deal was off.

Anyway, I was going to put up a large storage/shop building to share with them so I was investigating my options. At first I thought about a steel building but as I researched it I started to have concerns.

Then I found these guys local to me and started considering timberframe construction. http://www.cornerstonebuildingsystems.com/. The cost is very comparable to steel buildings once you consider the added effort of installing windows and insulation. I like that it looks so much better and they can design and build it the way you want it. It's very similar to having a house built, except cheaper.

You should see if you can find someone like this local to you and get a quote. You can save a lot of money if you can prepare the site yourself. You'll be wanting a bobcat anyway to load logs onto your portable sawmill .

A few miscellaneous things to consider..

Local zoning and building codes may place a limit on the size, number and type of out buildings you have and where you can place them depending on what they are used for.

Since you are on 50 acres a septic system seems like a given. You'll need to think about where to put the shop with respect to the house and try to make sure you are not too far from the septic, unless you don't mind paying for a second system.

Making the shop part of the house will mean the square foot value (and expense) of the shop is increased. Means you may pay more property tax.

OTOH, you can roll the cost of the shop into your construction loan. A house on a hillside with a walkout basement shop has some appeal.

[Bob Slater]

Sounds like a nice plan. I would go separate building, that way you can store hazardous chemicals, make dust, noise, etc. It would be nice if my shop was on my property. If you don't want to run a septic or water line to the shop, I have been very pleased with my electric toilet by INCINOLET. . It is made in Texas (probably the same place that makes electric chairs) Not that a toilet is the number 1 priority in shop design....well maybe sometimes.

[Tom Davis]

I built a 36 X 24 shop 2 years ago. Looking back I wish I had built 10' ceilings rather than 9'. I have already run into some situations where the extra foot would have made building some taller picies easier and I thin k it would have helped keep the shop cooler in South Georgia summers.

[Micheal Roth]

Tom, not to be to forward but what did it cost to build your shop as a 24x36 is the exact size i'm wanting to build. I'm going to go with 10' ceilings and i want a full upstairs for storage.

[Jim Kountz]

Rick, since you now have a lathe here is what I would recommend. If you can swing it, build a shop that is large enough to house the tools and machinery you plan to have. But also plan for a separate finish room and lathe room. I have a two story 24x30, the top portion is not being used for shop, just storage right now. I have thought about relocating the lathe up there simply because EVERYTHING gets sprayed with shavings and water when roughing out bowl blanks. I had to install a cheap pull down blind between my lathe and my bandsaw to keep the water off of it. If you can keep the lathe in a room by itself yet near your bandsaw, you will like it I think. Also when you're thinking footprint think in increments of 4'. The only reason for this is ext sheathing will work out nicer with less waste but this is not a big deal just something I try to plan on. Also one more thing would be a utility room. A place for the panel box, air compressor, heating and cooling etc. Try to keep dust collection in mind while planning and ductwork design. The more you can incorporate all these items the less time you will spend setting up your shop trying to figure out where to put everything. Workflow is also important. Think of how YOU work not everyone else, then try to set machines and work areas up to accommodate this workflow. This is alot to think about but it will pay in the end for you. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!!

[Scott Wigginton]

Not that a toilet is the number 1 priority in shop design....well maybe sometimes.

While not a number 1 priority, definetely a number 2 priority!


Ok ok, I just couldn't resist .

Also when you're thinking footprint think in increments of 4'. The only reason for this is ext sheathing will work out nicer with less waste but this is not a big deal just something I try to plan on.

Another reason: It comes out to exactly 3 studs per section.

[Michael Gibbons]

Eventually I will build my version of the 26X36 ft New Yankee Workshop. I've built a 1/12th scale model in my basement with all the tools that I currently have and items I will get. I've placed window openings where I would like them and made replicas of cabinets, assembly tables and such and also put them in their intended spot. When built, an 8X8 finishing room will be in the Southwest corner. There will be no bathroom or running water as the house will be 75 ft away. You might consider making a model and see what you might want to move around or change before finalizing your plan. Things like window and door placement as well as water inlets, gas or propane inlets wall heights need careful thought. Good luck.

[Pete Hay]

For the use & time frame you described, I'd consider a 30x40 detached building no more than 100' from the house site. Lean-to away from the house for air compressor, DC, and lumber storage. If feasible, a second floor apartment you can use while the house is being built. If not, divide the shop temporarily.

Next you have to consider a building for tractor & equipment. 50 acres requires some serious equipment

[Tony Bilello]

[quote=Bill Keehn;1032920]

....It will have plenty of windows (especially on the south side) and maybe a skylight or two for as much natural lighting as possible.


My only suggestion would be to get some books out of the library on solar energy and might want to rethink the southern windows in Florida. You might end up with an air conditioning nightmare. Each latitude has a 'desirable' amount of roof overhang so as to allow the winter sun in and the summer sun out. Just a thought.

Anyway, I think you have the right attitude. Many people think about machinery and workbench space and never give much thought to actual work space and project space.
2000 sq. foot is great for a small custom shop but with any luck at all you will out grow it quickly. And I hope you do.

[Randy Johnson]

My shop is in a renovated two car garage about 30X30. I did a lot of work on it, I’m very happy with it, but if I was in a position to build EXACTLY what I wanted it would be a lot different.

First of all, a shop building can probably never be too large. Mine is okay but I wish it was 30X40 or even 30X50. In addition to the machinery (In my case, tablesaw, jointer, shaper, bandsaw, router table and lathe.) there are several work benches/tables taking up floor space. The lumber storage takes a lot of space too.

The ceiling is 8 ½ feet. If I was building from scratch it would be twelve with a few paddle fans to push the heat down in the winter. It’s amazing how easy it is to hit a lower ceiling when handling 4X8 sheets of plywood.

The floor would be wood with a decent crawlspace underneath for running duct work, compressed air lines, and electrical.

One end would be finished out for a place to relax on those days when things are not working out right or if you just need to sit down for awhile. There would definitely be a restroom. In my case, the last item is provided by a porta-john. It works alright in the summer but I hate using it when the weather is like it is now.

Heat would either be radiant or forced air central. My shop has a Modine style heater which does the job but on really cold days wearing short sleeves can be a little cold. I think the problem is that the heat just isn’t distributed evenly enough. I might add here that all the research I did before I bought my heater said that it was better to get slightly under the required BTUs than go too high over it. Advise aside, I wish I had got a bigger unit that could heat the shop a little faster.

[Sonny Edmonds]

Well, the long distance is kind of a drag.
But if I was to have my ideal, I would want to build a big shop, a huge shop!
Then build a house in one end of the building with the shop. A really gorgeous home with a facade if you want a house look on the end of the building.
Next would be the shop area in that same building.
Beyond the shop area would be the car, truck, and toy storage. Everything under one roof.
Like 60' X 100', or 80' X 100'.

But being real close to retiring, I'm more apt to go fishing...

[Ray Newman]

FWIW: In ’01, we were in the same situation: new house & new shop (30’x36’), as well as retirement. Some of this you may already know or may not apply. But I was thinking about other who may be doing the same in the future.

Depending upon your expertise & energy level (as well as a high frustration toleration), you maybe able to do some of the work yourself. Here’s a few thoughts based on our experiences….

1.) Check w/ the local bldg dept about any restrictions as to the size of any out bldgs. If you’re bldg in a community, also check on CCR’s, ordinances, etc. Don’t take a contractor’s or a Realtor’s word—they are out to sell property, make a profit.

During our property/home search, we saw some CCR ‘s that had specific time-frames as to when you can operate your shop as well as how high & big it can be & then the building must be approved by the all homeowners. One difficult person can ruin your dreams. I know a guy who could not build the shop he wanted because of CCR’s--a shop was considered a “business” under the CCR’s. Luckily, he found out before he signed on the “dotted line.”

2.) Design the shop to fit in w/ the house—same roof design & materials, same siding, windows, etc. This will also enhance the $$ of your property. In our 7 home development, we were the only ones to do this. A few other homeowners have built out buildings/shops/extra garages w/o thought to design, overall size, materials, etc., & it shows. Thank God I don’t have to look @ them. Our shop is located so I can look @ the driveway when the door is open, & all tools face the driveway—so no one approaches unnoticed….

3.) Insulate the bldg & house w/ the maximum amount of insulation possible. We did this & along w/ a heat pump, it has saves us a good $150.00 per month in the winter compared to what the neighbors w/ smaller homes pay for utilities. Insulation is cheap compared to ever increasing energy costs. Install highly efficient windows. Make sure the slab is insulated & has a moisture barrier. If you plan for a roll-up door, get an insulated unit & a garage door opener. Makes a world of difference when it’s raining & you need to load/unload.

4.) Install a highly efficient heat/cooling system. Energy costs will not decrease. A wood stove in a wood building will more than likely increase your fire insurance premium. When I sought estimates for homeowner’s coverage, that was the 1st thing that agents asked about the shop & house: do you have a wood burning stove?

5.) Security. Windows about 5-6’ from the floor to keep our prying eyes. This will provide for more storage room underneath. Have shop wired for telephone & alarm system. Install a phone that can be reached from siting on the floor & has the keypad in the handset. This way if you injure yourself and can reach the phone, you can use it. An intercom hooked up to the house might be worthwhile. I consider TV & a computer to be a dangerous distraction.

6.) Electrical: receptacles @ least 52” above floor so sheet goods will not block them. If you have children/grandchildren, it might be worth while to install a master cut out to for all but the lights when you’re not there. Put in a large shop panel in a convenient location. Take pictures of wiring before closing up walls. You may never need circuit for a welder, but you just may have the need for one some day & it’s always easier to install circuit when building.

7.) Lights: if installing florescent, look @ Fine Wood Working, # 153, Winter 2001/2002, which has an article on the high efficient T8 lights & how to plan lighting needs. Put lights in a series of switches/banks so you don’t illuminate the whole shop when you don’t need to. Skylights (speaking from personal experience w/ prior residence here) are nice, but they are a place where leaks can/will start, are hard to seal up (if they open) & depending on size, are an invitation for miscreants to enter your property. My former neighbor once was robbed – the thief broke a skylight to get in.

8.) Wood floor is more comfortable & tool friendly.

9.) Make a large scale drawing of the shop & cardboard cut outs of the tools & benches. Really helps to aid in tool placement for efficient workflow.

10.) #9, above, will help you plan for an efficient dust collection system, which is a God-send if you work when the shop is closed up. Depending on the size, you might consider a separate room for the DC & air compressor to deaden the noise. Some choose to vent the dust outside, but some localities prohibit this & you’ll also being removing warm/cool air from the shop.

11.) Interior walls/ceiling: I like drywall painted white to reflect light. Shop cabinets are hung via French cleats. Ceiling height is a matter of preference & what you intend to do.

12.) Keep the shop only for you. My spouse & I agree that I don’t put anything in her doll studio & she doesn’t or temporarily place anything in my side of the shop. The “temporary” & seasonal storage items will never leave & will multiply. This has happened to a neighbor.

13.) Our shop was plumbed for a bathroom, but only a deep “slop” sink was installed. Very handy to have. The local tax collector loves to see a bathroom in an outbuilding or shop & will think “ah ha – higher appraisal; more tax $$.”

14.) If you have walkways placed around the house & shop, install 4” or even larger diameter PVC pipe in the ground @ the corners & other locations before the concrete is poured. That way you always have access if you want to run an irrigation system, outdoor lighting, etc.

(Saw a shop about 12-15’ from the garage & the owner had a buried piece of 6” PVC connecting the two. In the pipe, he snaked an air compressor hose, so he could fill the truck tires w/o moving the vehicles outside.)

15.) If this is a retirement or last home bought, I would think about providing for wheelchair access. People are living longer & medicine is keeping people alive when before they would have died from strokes, heart attacks, broken hips, etc. It’s cheaper & easier to do it now, then after the fact. If your washer/dryer is in the garage, consider a sloping floor poured even w/ the house. This way you don’t have to fight with a laundry cart or basket, or go up down a step or two when carrying stuff into the house. Same w/ steps leading to or in the house. If a 2 story home, have one of the stair walls reinforced in case you ever need to install a chair for going up down. Same w/ bathroom walls—reinforce for grab bars. Take pictures & measurements for future reference

16.) Have the house wired for a generator. We did this & it has been a God-send. If doing it over, I think I would bite the bullet & have an auto-start propane generators installed.

17.) Instead of a wood fireplace, maybe a propane unit would be better. No wood to cut or ashes to haul out. Sooner or later, you’re going get tired of cutting, hauling, & stacking, & hauling firewood into the house as well as cleaning out the ashes.

18.) Consider a full sized 3 car garage if possible. I thought a 2 car would be enough that is until we moved into the new house w/ its attached 3 car garage. The open middle bay is sure nice to park the lawn tractor & gives more than enough room to open/close vehicle doors. We also had the garage insulated same as the house. Sure has made the house warmer & cooler.

19.) Use building materials that will need the minimum amount of maintenance. Since we reside in a quasi-wooded area w/ a not very close fire department, the roof on both house & shop is cement tile & the siding is Hardi Plank. Don't become a slave to keeping the house/shop looking nice or the landscaping perfect.

[Rick Prosser]

Wow - so much good information. I have already learned a few things and have a few new ideas or suggestions to ponder. Every post seems to have something I can use or enjoy.

I really like the aspect of learning from others - mistakes, or improvement ideas.

My place is out in the farmlands, so no CCRs or neighborhood type restrictions - just the county rules. I can/will do as much of the work as possible as it fits around my regular job. My house/shop will be around 2000 feet from the road with trees (pine/scrub oak)as a buffer. Wooded lots surround my wooded lot. I will need other shed or building for tractor type equipment as well, but was not planning to include it in the shop design, - maybe I should

Keep the comments coming!
Thanks

[Jim Ferenz]

Hi,

I have a 30X40 shop and the best thing I did was to build a small room on the back (about 10X5 I think). That room houses my Air Compressor, Vac System, sepperator and various other items. That room is not accessable from inside the shop. I also wired 2 - 220V circuits to switches inside the shop so that when I leave at night I can cut power to the vac and compressor. I also made the wall between the two rooms extra thick with a sheet of 3/4 ply on the inside of the room prior to sheetrocking. I also insulated very well.

The results are great! No dust back in the shop and no noise from the compressor or the vac.

Good luck with your shop!