Dovetail saw for beginner?

[Craig Johnson]

Robert,what's the matter with you? Obama needs us to SPEND!!!!

I can totally agree with this and have been trying dillegently to stimulate the economy by myself.........(Woodcraft are you listening?).

[Robert Rozaieski]

Ah I see, what ya have to do is once you get that bench built and that dovetail saw practice dovetails and maker her something .

Yep, cater to the CFO by showing her some return on investment and she'll ask you to build her something else. This is a good thing ...

"Well honey, to build that I'm going to need X, Y and Z and possibly A, B and C as well."

When she sees something coming out of the shop, she will be much more accepting of your "need" for additional tools .

[george wilson]

Actually,guys,my wife is aware of what those tools can do for her. She was an artist when we met,and already making things herself. Now,our home business (98% her business) runs on dies,punches,special stamps,etc. that her very own toolmaker can turn out for her. I remember this moment 13 years ago "Oh my God! You paid $500.00 for that punch press?" Well,it was worth more,and came with dozens of punches and dies. Now I've made dozens more,and she cannot live without it. We bought another one a few years ago. Most of our book cases and furniture was made in the shop,too. I don't care a lot about making furniture,prefering to make guitars,so it's not elaborate except for her jewelry box and its table. The whole thing is Art Deco. She never was into Williamsburg!!

[John Keeton]

...her very own toolmaker can turn out for her.

George, given your historic perspective, surely you recognize indentured servitude when you encounter it

[Mitch Barker]

At a recent WW show I tried two dovetail saws at their booth. I thought that the cheaper one ($65). The handle was much more comfortable to me, and it seem to be easier to start and make a cut:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...74&cat=1,42884

It doesn't have the traditional brass stiffener, but it still works.

Mitch

[george wilson]

The number and form of the teeth have the most to do with ease of entering a cut. The back angle of the LV's teeth keep the saw from "grabbing" too aggressively,which you don't want for fine,accurate work.

[David Keller NC]

"I'm looking to dovetail the front apron into the end caps for the workbench. It will be a pretty big dovetail, so I'm guessing that a bigger saw would work? I currently have 0 hand saws for wood."

Justin, based on your comment that you've yet to construct your bench, and would like hand tools to do just that, I'm going to suggest the following saws, in this order. One thing I'll comment on is that if you can afford it, I highly suggest that you get what might be called a "high end" saw for each of these, from Lie-Nielsen, Grammercy (Tools for Working Wood), Mike Wenzloff & Sons, Lee-Valley, etc... In my opinion, the elcheapos from modern British makers like Crown, Lynx, Pax, etc... are completely unacceptable poor cousins - their handles suck, have sharp edges, and in some cases, the teeth are incorrectly filed.

If you don't have the money for Lie-Nielsens, I'd suggest you'll be much better served picking up a few Disstons or antique British saws from their golden age (generally, before 1917), and either sharpen them yourself, or have someone do it for you. You'll save substantial money, and have much better saws than the inexpensive modern counterparts.

So, For the saw list:

1) A 14" tenon back-saw - this will let you cut the dovetails for the apron on your bench, as well as all the tenons for the stretchers underneath. Depending on dimensions, you may also find that the 12" Lie-Nielsen version has enough capacity to meet your needs (I did).

2) A fairly large cacass back-saw. By fairly large, I mean in the 12-14" range (Lie-Nielsen's what I'm basing this on, but there are other equally good brands). This'll give you a saw to cut the tenon shoulders needed for your workbench. Here, less so than the tenon saw, a 12" will do you fine. It's rare to need great depth of cut capacity on a cross-cut backsaw.

3) A dovetail saw, in the 10" range. There's a bunch of choices here, and you will need this as soon as you start making cabinet pieces by hand.

4) A 20-26" Crosscut panel saw. Again, lots of choices, but this is one area where I'd buy an old Disston. The primary use for this saw is breaking down large boards without having to horse them around for your machines.

5) A small Carcass saw, in the 10" range. A little guy like this is an excellent adjunct to a large carcass back-saw, generally used for accurate cross-cutting of all sorts of small furniture parts, in conjuction with a bench hook.

6) A large panel saw, filed rip, in the 5-7 tpi range. This would be my lowest priority, and only if you really want to go completely neanderthal and make a piece entirely by hand. Otherwise, the table saw completely replaces the need for one of these.

[Gary Herrmann]

I tried the LV dovetail saw at the woodworking show today. I liked it's heft and how well it cut. Appears to have a light set. They were having 10% off with no shipping, so I ordered one.

[Justin Green]

Thanks David. I think I'm going to order the LN tenon saw. I'll keep my eyes open for some saws at the antique stores. I will do some research on the Disston saws as I wouldn't be able to identify one's age at this point (like I'm learning to do with planes).

[Phillip Pattee]

Justin,
Here is the web site you need to find out about Disston saws. http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/ There are some excellent saws out there.

[David Keller NC]

Justin - Philip's given you a good place to start, but there's an easy way to spot the older Disstons from across the room - it has to do with the handles. Prior to 1917 (and in some top of the line saws, prior to the 1930's), all of the handles had at least hand finishing work in them, and all of the intersections of the hand grips are nicely and continuously rounded.

Afterwards, price pressures and the advent of more sophisticated rotary tools (like routers and shapers) resulted in an automated process that left sharp edges on the handles - the visual difference is striking.

One irony of this situation is that the steel that got used in the Disston saws was improving all the time, so that, at least in my opinion and those of others, the steel reached its zenith long after the woodwork started declining. For that reason, you may be able to pick up a later manufactured Disston (or Spear and Jackson, or Simmonds) saw, and take a file and rasp to it to drastically improve the handle. You'll then have a really nice saw for very little money.

[Justin Green]

Thanks a bunch everyone. You guys have given me a lot to run with. You guys are very generous to help a stranger newbie!