My Conversation with the President of Festool USA re Systainers

[Frank Pellow]

Earlier this week, I sent our collected comments re systainers (which can be found in the thread entitled "Draft of note to be sent to Festool re Systainers" http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=10208 ) to Christian Oltzscher, the President of Festool USA (which seems to include Canada in their way of thinking). Christian and I talked a long time but I will try to make this report short. The main topics that we covered are listed below:

Flimsy Systainer Inserts:
Christian has sent our comments to Festool Germany and is waiting for a reply. He did say that, in his personal opinion, that this is an area where Festool is able to save some money in a very competitive industry without compromising the quality of the working tools. However, in spite of the fragile appearance of the inserts, the only place that Christian is aware of any problems is under very cold conditions in Russia.

Option of Getting Tools at a Slightly Reduced Price without Systainers:
A couple of years ago, Festool USA, determined that the number of people who did not want systainers was likely to be very low. However, based on our feedback, Festool USA will run a survey (he did not say how) to determine if this option is desirable to sufficient people. Of course, if they decide to do this, it complicates their ordering and shipping. As Scott Coffelt observed "Gotta start with a limited SKU, then move up; standard business practice."

Problems with the Sys-port 1000 Design reported by Manny Hernandez:
Christian says that, as a result of this posting, Festool has been in contact with Manny, has determined that hehas a faulty unit and that they will fix the problem. He also said that they located 2 of the older units that Manny prefers. Manny, please tell us your side of the story.

Festool User's Group:
Christian says that he, among others at Festool, spends considerable time reviewing comments on forums. And, he says that our forum, is one of those that he reviews. This gives Festool the feedback that they think they require and Christian does not see the need for a "user's group". He says that submitting collective issues the way that we at Saw Mill Creek have just done is a better way to go.

[Manny Hernandez]

All,
Yes, Christian has contacted me with regard to the Sysport issue and another issue I brought to his attention regarding the VS600 and dowelling plate. I am planning to post about my experience, but have been waiting for them to deliver on their promise. We've only been in contact since last week, so it will be a while before delivery. All I can say right now is that I am very pleased with their taking interest in my issues with the Sysport and I appreciate the email and phone call from Christian. He promised to swap out an old style sysport for mine and he found an additional one for me. They did indicate that mine is one of a few of an interim design of the systport and the new ones shipping do not have this problem. The ones shipping now have a release button on the top next to the keylock. This prevents the drawers from opening by themselves when moving the sysport. I still prefer the older style though.
The issue with the VS600 is more operator error than anything. I knew this from the beginning. That's why I didn't bring it up in public. However, so far they have been great in helping me along. It's not resolved yet, but they are helping me with tech support over the phone.
So, if/when they follow through with their promise on the sysports I will post again regarding the entire experience.

Also, mucho thanks to Frank Pellow for spearheading this effort!!

Manny

[Chris Padilla]

Cool beans! Festool sounds like a great company...all the way around!

[Frank Pellow]

In an exchange of email this afternoon, Christian confirmed that Festool Germany does not think that there is a problem with the systainer inserts. Below is the bulk of our email exchange:

(1) Christian Oltzscher:

Here are some answers I received from Germany. The Product Manager told me, that they have close to 0 complaints about inserts.

During the R&D process of a new tool, they are also testing the Systainers and the inserts. They drop the Systainers with the tools in there from 2.5 meters (8.2 feet) several times. Not just the tool, but also the inserts have to survive this procedure. If not, they get reinforced. Depending on how heavy the tool is, the thickness of the inserts is between 1.5 and 3mm.

Making inserts from a different material would lead to higher costs resulting
in a higher sales price of the tool. Since the Systainer insert doesn't affect the desired working result of a tool (the quality of the cut with a saw, the quality of the surface with a sander etc.), we'd rather invest money in improving the quality of the tool and the working result. For the time being, we think the inserts are a good compromise between quality and costs. And in case they should break, they are available as replacement parts.

(2) Frank Pellow:

I do believe that the systainer inserts survive the 2.5 metre fall within the box. However, I would think that a better test of the inserts would to roughly remove and insert the tool several times.

I am generally quite rough on tools and it is not natural for me to have to take the kind of care that I think I need to take with the inserts. I, for one, would be willing to pay more for an insert the was obviously of the same industrial strenth as the rest of your products. How much would I pay? -probably up to $15 (US) per tool.

Am I coorect that a cracked insert would be replaced within the 3 year warrently period?

(3) Christian Oltzscher:

Regarding your suggestion: During the test phase of the product, Festool has a lot of test customers working with the tool. They are also testing the Systainers and the inserts. They are both customers that work mainly in the shop and customers that work mainly on the jobsite. They take the tool out of the Systainer every day and put it back. As I said before, the inserts never were an issue.

The inserts wouldn't be covered by the 3 year warranty since the warranty is on power tools only.

Frank, I don't think there are enough customers out there that would be willing to pay more for a better inserts. Normally people ask about paying less (like the people that want to buy the tools without the Systainers).

[Michael Ballent]

Wow they drop the tools from 8 feet while they are in the systainer!!! And it needs to survive... That is a pretty impressive test IMO. But can the tool sustain an 8ft drop??? Not sure how many people would haul a systainer up that high? But I could certainly imagine some taking a drill or a jigsaw up that high. Any one have an idea if they can withstand something like like. Makita is advertising that some of their tools can handle that... Sure some of that is marketing mumbo jumbo but I think that would be the real test.

It is nice to see that they do go through field testing before they head out to the market... Does Festool only test the tools in Germany or do they try them in other parts of the world? Every place seems to have a certain way they handle tools or certain tasks.

Frank, thanks for taking the time to research this, and I am equally impressed that you were able to talk to the CEO and also he was responsive. This certainly makes me more likely to buy a Festool tool in the future, even though the answer you got may not have been what you were looking for.

[Dennis Peacock]

Well....let's just say...

<b>I'm more impressed with Festool now, than I was before....and THAT's saying something!!!!!!</b>

[Manny Hernandez]

Festool came thorugh on their promise. I had two of the old style Sysports delivered today. Since David from Festool was going to be in the area on personal business, he drove them up to me from the LA area. I met him over at the Japan Woodworker and we swapped Sysports. Thanks to Christian, David, Bob Marino and Frank Pello I'm a happy camper!!

I sure hope Festool decides to go back to the old style Systports. The person that handles the Festool orders at Japan Woodworker came out to see the two Sysports and mentioned that he knows some people "that would kill to get those" So I guess I'm not the only one who likes them.

I appreciate all the trouble Festool went through to make things right. They will definitely get more of my money.

Manny