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Thread: Woodworkers Journal Scam . . .?

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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Woodworkers Journal Scam . . .?

    Has anybody else received unsolicited, the first of a series called The Complete Woodworking Video Collection?

    This is the way it works, they send it and tell you IF YOU DO NOT WANT IT, just return it . . . .or discard it . . . I discarded it . .

    Well I don't want it and I don't think I should be responsible to get it back to them.

    Now for the best part, they send a dunning letter every month they call a reminder telling you to send money or send it back. Well the first letter that came with the DVD said either send it back or discard it . . . Well I looked at it, it was what I did not feel was worthwhile info, so I threw it away as they said I could. Now I am being inundated with reminders . . . .

    Time Warner has some really good CD's with the oldies, and this is exactly why I won't buy them . . . They never stop sending crap to you . . .

    I guess that is my punishment for being stupid enough to subscribe to WOODWORKERS JOURNAL MAGAZINE . . . . I like the magazine, but their business office sucks big time . . . I probably will not renew . . . I'm paid up through 2010, but I get a letter telling me I need to renew at least once a month . . .
    Last edited by Steven DeMars; 02-09-2009 at 9:10 AM.
    Support the "CREEK" . . .

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven DeMars View Post
    Has anybody else received unsolicited, the first of a series called The Complete Woodworking Video Collection?

    This is the way it works, they send it and tell you IF YOU DO NOT WANT IT, just return it . . . .or discard it . . . I discarded it . . . . . .
    If it was unsolicited you definitely don't have to pay for it, you don't have to return it and you don't have to throw it away.

  3. #3
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    Lawrenceburg, Tenn.
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    I got that DVD in the mail yesterday. My current plan is to mail it back to them in their prepaid envelope. I don't play that game.

    I suppose I could just keep it, but I really do not need any more DVDs of any stripe.

    Doc
    As Cort would say: Fools are the only folk on the earth who can absolutely count on getting what they deserve.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Mid Michigan
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    I have not received any literature or video tape on the Woodworking Video Collection.
    When I receive unsolicited items, then get a bill for it, I write back and inform them that I didn't order the item, didn't want the item and I do not want them to bill me again or I will contact my attorney. I never hear from them again.
    When dealing with Time Life items, I send them back unopened. Do that a few times and they get the message when they have to pay the postage.
    David B

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G Baker View Post
    I have not received any literature or video tape on the Woodworking Video Collection.
    When I receive unsolicited items, then get a bill for it, I write back and inform them that I didn't order the item, didn't want the item and I do not want them to bill me again or I will contact my attorney. I never hear from them again.
    When dealing with Time Life items, I send them back unopened. Do that a few times and they get the message when they have to pay the postage.
    Instead of telling them you will contact "your attorney" try telling them you will contact the Attorney General in your state and theirs. My wife has worked for a law firm for 28 yrs. and asked her boss about this out of curiosity and that is what he recommended, by the way I did and have not received any further requests from them Ofcourse you can aslo add your attorney also as David stated, for those people the more the merrier

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Western Oregon
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    It didn't surprise me at all to get the DVD. This type of marketing is not unique to woodworking. And it surprised me even less to get the followup letters, considering that WWJ is owned by Rockler.

    I recall my very first experience with Rockler about fifteen years ago when they were known as the Woodworker's Store. They sent me the wrong product entirely (their fault). When I returned it for exchange for the right product, they didn't have the right product. So, they "credited" me in Rockler-bucks or some ridiculous substitute for cash-back. And they refused to refund my money as anyone else would have done.

    As you can see, I haven't forgotten that.

    So I kept the DVD and ignored the followup letters as I would with any other kind of marketing spam.

    And then there was the notorious "50% off any one item sale excluding power tools" (I forget the details), offered on the internet about 4-5 years ago. Naturally, customers put in order for Leigh jigs, etc. and other pricey items other than power tools in the belief that the offer was made in good faith. Once it dawned on them that Leigh jigs, etc. were in fact "not power tools" and well.........Rockler refused to honor their offer as stated and the internet WW community was furious. The Boards were buzzing. Ann Rockler, the CEO, registered up on one of the Boards and, in a perhaps a single lifetime post, replied and offered an apology. They are more careful now in their fine print. But they still refused to honor their offer, as I recall.

    Do I still go to Rockler?.....sure. But my memory isn't that bad....yet.

  7. #7
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    Jim S
    I reserve the mention of the State Attorney Generals Office when I really get irritated, then I really do contact their office.
    David B

  8. #8
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    If I get something suspect, I write with black markers over my name and address and then write "return to sender" and pop it in the mail. Also why are there limitations to sales? Like Woodcrafts "excluding Sawstop, Leigh jigs, power tools and such on their sale days? Are they price fixed? some back alley deals? If they can give 10% off of a bowl gouge then they can give 10% off of a Sawstop.
    Michael Gibbons

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gibbons View Post
    If they can give 10% off of a bowl gouge then they can give 10% off of a Sawstop.
    Actually, retailers typically can't discount power tools because the margin is pretty thin as it is. Markups on accessories and hand tools, like a bowl gouge, have a much higher markup. So, they can discount that stuff and still make money.

    Although, I do get pretty anoyed with the "20% Off Everything in the Store!" (Excludes power tools.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gibbons View Post
    If I get something suspect, I write with black markers over my name and address and then write "return to sender" and pop it in the mail. Also why are there limitations to sales? Like Woodcrafts "excluding Sawstop, Leigh jigs, power tools and such on their sale days? Are they price fixed?
    Price fixing is illegal. Just an example, IF Walmart, and a competitor, like Target, or Sears, etc. decided they would all not sell xyz, for less then $20.00, that is illegal and called price fixing.

    Price restrictions, are legal. Those are when the manufacturer, requires that its distributors, not sell below a certain price point. Sawstop is an example of this, and if they do with a coupon, then they lose the right to distribute, and can be subject to other contracted restrictions (fines, legal fee's, etc).

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
    Price fixing is illegal. Just an example, IF Walmart, and a competitor, like Target, or Sears, etc. decided they would all not sell xyz, for less then $20.00, that is illegal and called price fixing.

    Price restrictions, are legal. Those are when the manufacturer, requires that its distributors, not sell below a certain price point. Sawstop is an example of this, and if they do with a coupon, then they lose the right to distribute, and can be subject to other contracted restrictions (fines, legal fee's, etc).
    It is only price fixing if there is an agreement between competitors, explicit or implied, secret or otherwise.

    What you call a pricing restriction is known as retail price fixing. Companies engaging in this practice could be found guilty of price fixing until this was overturned by the Supreme court last August. Now manufacturers such as Sawstop can withhold product from their retailers that do not comply with their minimum pricing without fear of prosecution. IMHO, it seems to me they were on thin ice prior to that.

  12. #12
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    I sent mine back in the pre-paid envelope they sent......

    ....I documented the return with pics! (I may still have the original letter here some place too!.....)
    I underlined "Please send no further DVDs" on the return card.

    I haven't got anything from them since - I returned the DVD on 01/01/09
    DVDpic.jpg
    Last edited by Mike Langford; 02-08-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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  13. #13
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    See post number 13 by Lee Schierer - McKean, PA in this thread:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93737

    If you do nothing, you may or may not get more junk from them. If you respond (returning dvd), they may sell your name as someone who responds. But his solution is classic.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
    See post number 13 by Lee Schierer - McKean, PA in this thread:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93737

    If you do nothing, you may or may not get more junk from them. If you respond (returning dvd), they may sell your name as someone who responds. But his solution is classic.
    Here is the link Lee and David above referred to. Very funny: http://www.vertical-visions.com/_tem...id/index2.html
    Wood: a fickle medium....

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Padilla View Post
    Here is the link Lee and David above referred to. Very funny: http://www.vertical-visions.com/_tem...id/index2.html
    Just to clarify, I have used this method only to the extent that I sent all the literature, envelope etc back to the company via their postage paid envelope. It gets your name off their mailing list pretty quickly. I don't advocate sending bricks or old tires to companies. They'll get the point with just their envelope full of stuff. Or write "REFUSED" in big letters across the mailing adress and drop it in a mail box, that way you don't even have to open it.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

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