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Thread: Woodworkers Journal Scam . . .?

  1. #16
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    I didn't receive a DVD, but a book with the same strategy. It's sitting on my dining room table. My take is I didn't order it, so I'm keeping it. My wife wants me to send it back or pay for it. So there it sits.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Padilla View Post
    Here is the link Lee and David above referred to. Very funny: http://www.vertical-visions.com/_tem...id/index2.html
    I'll repeat what I've said before about such "revenge". The post office will look at a pre-paid postage envelope attached to a large item and just throw the whole thing away.

    Furthermore, in the situation in the link posted above, it's possible that guy could have been fined. Tires are controlled items. You can't just throw them away. That's why you're somtimes charged a "disposal fee" when you get new tires.

    I agree it would be fun to seek such revenge. But in this case, I think it's all in futility.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by David G Baker View Post
    I have not received any literature or video tape on the Woodworking Video Collection.
    When I receive unsolicited items, then get a bill for it, I write back and inform them that I didn't order the item, didn't want the item and I do not want them to bill me again or I will contact my attorney. I never hear from them again.
    When dealing with Time Life items, I send them back unopened. Do that a few times and they get the message when they have to pay the postage.
    Instead of telling them you will contact "your attorney" try telling them you will contact the Attorney General in your state and theirs. My wife has worked for a law firm for 28 yrs. and asked her boss about this out of curiosity and that is what he recommended, by the way I did and have not received any further requests from them Ofcourse you can aslo add your attorney also as David stated, for those people the more the merrier

  4. #19
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    Feb 2004
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    It didn't surprise me at all to get the DVD. This type of marketing is not unique to woodworking. And it surprised me even less to get the followup letters, considering that WWJ is owned by Rockler.

    I recall my very first experience with Rockler about fifteen years ago when they were known as the Woodworker's Store. They sent me the wrong product entirely (their fault). When I returned it for exchange for the right product, they didn't have the right product. So, they "credited" me in Rockler-bucks or some ridiculous substitute for cash-back. And they refused to refund my money as anyone else would have done.

    As you can see, I haven't forgotten that.

    So I kept the DVD and ignored the followup letters as I would with any other kind of marketing spam.

    And then there was the notorious "50% off any one item sale excluding power tools" (I forget the details), offered on the internet about 4-5 years ago. Naturally, customers put in order for Leigh jigs, etc. and other pricey items other than power tools in the belief that the offer was made in good faith. Once it dawned on them that Leigh jigs, etc. were in fact "not power tools" and well.........Rockler refused to honor their offer as stated and the internet WW community was furious. The Boards were buzzing. Ann Rockler, the CEO, registered up on one of the Boards and, in a perhaps a single lifetime post, replied and offered an apology. They are more careful now in their fine print. But they still refused to honor their offer, as I recall.

    Do I still go to Rockler?.....sure. But my memory isn't that bad....yet.

  5. #20
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    Jim S
    I reserve the mention of the State Attorney Generals Office when I really get irritated, then I really do contact their office.
    David B

  6. #21
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    If I get something suspect, I write with black markers over my name and address and then write "return to sender" and pop it in the mail. Also why are there limitations to sales? Like Woodcrafts "excluding Sawstop, Leigh jigs, power tools and such on their sale days? Are they price fixed? some back alley deals? If they can give 10% off of a bowl gouge then they can give 10% off of a Sawstop.
    Michael Gibbons

    I think I like opening day of deer season more than any udder day of the year. It's like Christmas wit guns. - Remnar Soady

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gibbons View Post
    If they can give 10% off of a bowl gouge then they can give 10% off of a Sawstop.
    Actually, retailers typically can't discount power tools because the margin is pretty thin as it is. Markups on accessories and hand tools, like a bowl gouge, have a much higher markup. So, they can discount that stuff and still make money.

    Although, I do get pretty anoyed with the "20% Off Everything in the Store!" (Excludes power tools.)

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Gibbons View Post
    If I get something suspect, I write with black markers over my name and address and then write "return to sender" and pop it in the mail. Also why are there limitations to sales? Like Woodcrafts "excluding Sawstop, Leigh jigs, power tools and such on their sale days? Are they price fixed?
    Price fixing is illegal. Just an example, IF Walmart, and a competitor, like Target, or Sears, etc. decided they would all not sell xyz, for less then $20.00, that is illegal and called price fixing.

    Price restrictions, are legal. Those are when the manufacturer, requires that its distributors, not sell below a certain price point. Sawstop is an example of this, and if they do with a coupon, then they lose the right to distribute, and can be subject to other contracted restrictions (fines, legal fee's, etc).

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
    Price fixing is illegal. Just an example, IF Walmart, and a competitor, like Target, or Sears, etc. decided they would all not sell xyz, for less then $20.00, that is illegal and called price fixing.

    Price restrictions, are legal. Those are when the manufacturer, requires that its distributors, not sell below a certain price point. Sawstop is an example of this, and if they do with a coupon, then they lose the right to distribute, and can be subject to other contracted restrictions (fines, legal fee's, etc).
    It is only price fixing if there is an agreement between competitors, explicit or implied, secret or otherwise.

    What you call a pricing restriction is known as retail price fixing. Companies engaging in this practice could be found guilty of price fixing until this was overturned by the Supreme court last August. Now manufacturers such as Sawstop can withhold product from their retailers that do not comply with their minimum pricing without fear of prosecution. IMHO, it seems to me they were on thin ice prior to that.

  10. #25
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    I got a DVD from Woodworkers Guild of America. I copied it, put the copy in the DVD case, and kept that. Sent the original back to them in the pre-paid envelope.
    Last edited by Myk Rian; 02-13-2009 at 3:14 PM.
    Never, under any circumstances, consume a laxative and sleeping pill, on the same night

  11. #26

    Woodworkers Journal Scam . . .?

    I received an unsolicited dvd from the Woodworker's Journal, and immediately called them (I do not subscribe to the magazine). The receptionist I spoke with was polite and courteous. She informed me that it was a promotion, and I could keep the dvd and I was under no further obligation. I watched the "free" dvd, and found it informative and professional.
    So where's the scam? If you contacted the WJ office and wasn't happy with your conversation, possibly you presented yourself too aggressively. I've have now dealt with the WJ staff, and I have read your posting. In the future, I will not hesitate to deal with them!
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 08-12-2009 at 2:17 PM. Reason: Removed inflammatory statement

  12. #27
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    This is probably the 5th or 6th thread on this topic this year. Bottom line - nobody has an obligation to pay for unsolicited goods mailed to them. Companies will continue to use this tactic as long as the return rate is profitable enough. We can discourage them by opting out, cancelling subscriptions, ignoring bills, etc. That's the primary reason I'm no longer a WWJ subscriber, although the lame content of the magazine (IMHO) was also a factor. Apparently, they are devastated by my decision, judging by the number of renewal lapse notices I've received. I'll try to cope with the guilt.
    The problem with education in the School of Hard Knocks is that by the time you're educated, you're too old to do anything.

  13. #28
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    I recieved the same DVD about a month and a half or two ago. It was clearly stated that I didn't need to return it and was under no obligation to do anything further than to watch it if I was interested. I watched and like others have said, it was all pretty basic stuff. I still have it around here and I haven't recieved any follow up stuff looking for payment.
    There's one in every crowd......and it's usually me!

  14. #29
    Being the snarky so-and-so that I am, I would keep the DVD, and send a schlocky DVD* back, with a note saying, "I thought you might like this DVD. Please send me $39.95 (in nickles) for the DVD, or return it."


    * Like anything starring Steven Seagal.
    Deflation: When I was a kid, an E-ticket meant I was about to go on the ride of my life. Today, an E-ticket means a miserable ride.

  15. #30
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    I have heard of attaching the prepaid envelope to a box with a brick in it -- is this just an urban legend? I've always wanted to do it.

    Can anyone explain why junk mail that no one wants is billed at a lower rate then letters that we send to each other? Oh yeah -- we don't hire lobbyists!

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