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Thread: dedicated dust collector for a wide belt sander?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Plano, Texas
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    174

    dedicated dust collector for a wide belt sander?

    Finally ordered my first wide belt sander last week and need to get dust collection squared away in my small commercial shop. All the 37" wide belts specified 1000 CFM in dust collection capacity, which seemed a little low to me.

    I have a couple questions and would love some feedback.

    1) I heard that the filters on cyclones (eg Oneida, ClearVue) clog up terribly with all the fine dust from wide belts, so that isn't a good way to go. Does anyone have experience with that? The smartest solution for my shop overall would be to get a 5hp cyclone and run all or most of my tools to it, but if the cyclone filters constantly clog from all the fine dust from a wide belt, that's a no go.

    2) The easiest/least expensive option for me would be to get a Grizzly 3hp DC for $425, put a couple aftermarket felt bags from American Filter on it for $250, and run a 10' piece of flex hose straight to the machine. I can't figure out static pressure calculations for the life of me, so I'm not sure if the 3hp has enough oomph for this (assuming 10' of 6" diameter flex hose with a couple 90's). It is rated at 2300 CFM, FWIW. I'm sure that rating is without any kind of bag on it.

    3) Alternatively, I can get a bigger Grizzly, say a 4hp or 5hp for $1,000, get 2 really big bags from American Filter for $500, and run that for all/most of my tools including the wide belt. I've been told you just periodically beat the big bags with a broom and the fine dust sort of drops down off the felt, but I have no personal experience with these bags. This option ends up costing almost as much as a cyclone, but has the single advantage of not having a pleated filter.

    What say ye?

    John

    PS I'll do a review of the sander once I've gotten a chance to run it a bit.
    Soli Deo Gloria.
    Chief Sawdust Maker, LoneStar Artisans
    Chief Sawdust Maker, The BoardSMITH
    Secretary, North Texas Woodworkers Association

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    black river falls wisconsin
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    I have 37" wide belt. I use shop foxx 3hp cyclone and my filter would plug up big time. I finally cut hole in side of garage and now no problem. venting outside was my answer.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Plano, Texas
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    I can't vent outside, but I'm curious about your solution... Did you ditch the cyclone with the wide belt altogether? And you now just blow all the dust outside? If so, I'm guessing you don't have too many neighbors near by.
    Soli Deo Gloria.
    Chief Sawdust Maker, LoneStar Artisans
    Chief Sawdust Maker, The BoardSMITH
    Secretary, North Texas Woodworkers Association

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    Nashville, TN
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    1,544
    Best bet for you since you are commercial is to go for option #2 or #3. Use a good bag and get as large a bag as practical (more surface area). Additionally, open type (single stage) collectors are much easier to meet NFPA guidelines if you are required to comply.

  5. #5
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    May 2009
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    black river falls wisconsin
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    I just unhooked hose from filter and vented outside. Still collect all chips in bin.

  6. #6
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    Feb 2011
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    What size port to the sander? I'm with Michael on 2 or 3. I tend to think a 3 hp direct bagger with oversize bags would do it depending on the inlet diameter of both the bagger and sander. You could also put bags on the cyclone but probably more hasssle than a stand alone. Dave

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kumm View Post
    What size port to the sander? I'm with Michael on 2 or 3. I tend to think a 3 hp direct bagger with oversize bags would do it depending on the inlet diameter of both the bagger and sander. You could also put bags on the cyclone but probably more hasssle than a stand alone. Dave

    It's a 6" port coming straight up the top. The Grizzly 3hp has a 7" duct out the side (6" or so off the ground). It actually has 3, 4" ducts, but that is removable.

    As an aside, my drum sander (soon to be retired) has a 30 amp plug (baldor 5hp motor). I see the ratings on the bigger grizzly DC's and I'm surprised... the 4hp full load current is 26amps and specifies a 40 amp breaker, and the 5 hp full load current is 34 amps and specifies a 50 amp breaker. I was kinda hoping to just use that 30 amp plug rather than paying the electrician to re-wire... hrm.
    Soli Deo Gloria.
    Chief Sawdust Maker, LoneStar Artisans
    Chief Sawdust Maker, The BoardSMITH
    Secretary, North Texas Woodworkers Association

  8. #8
    You can never have enough suction on a widebelt. I've got 3800 cfm going to mine, and it's barely adequate. I'm sure there's a lot of lost flow due to the about of pipe I've got, leaks, and dirty bags as well.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
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    bags will form a very fine cake inside as well, very quickly, and the suction drops significantly. If you have the option of venting outside I think it would be the best option.

  10. #10
    What is the inlet size on your sander? That will tell you how many cfm you are going to pull through it.Our 37" single head has a 6" hookup and works well- at that size the flow is going to be on the order of 800 cfm or so at normal flow rates. If you are a one man shop without excessive distance to the DC a 3hp unit should do the job. To run more than one machine you will want a bigger unit, probably 5hp or perhaps more. You need to calculate your total requirements based on all the machines you may have running at once and the branch sizes and lengths to settle on the blower capacity. Air Handling Systems has a good sizing guide on their website (airhandler.com?).

    You should look at single stage vs. cyclone and filter types as separate issues. A cyclone with the blower downstream will separate out the large stuff before it hits the impeller and filters, but will use a bit more power. You can use bag filters easily enough on a cyclone, you just have to hook them up to a plenum. I'm pretty sure Oneida can supply the parts for that.. They offer the cartridge filters as standard for space saving purposes, but I would be leery of using one with a wide belt for fear of clogging. The standard filter bags on single stage units tend to be way undersized and thus let a lot of fine dust particles through. Whatever route you go, plan for a minimum if 1 sq. ft. of filter per 10 cfm of bloower capacity.

  11. #11
    I worked at a shop with a speedsander, 37", and they had a dedicated 2 bag dc for it, and when you opened the door to change belts, the machine had dust everywhere. My tiny Grizzly is cleaner with a 2 hp cyclone in my shop. Of course they were running the bags which came with the machine. And they also ran the machine every day. Lot of difference between a full time shop with 4 guys working and a hobby shop.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    I'm with Martin. The more air flow through the sander, the better it will work and the longer it will last. I have a dedicated multi-bag collector and appreciate that it drops the fines into a plastic bag for me. If I'm reasonably careful, there isn't much airborne dust created when doing bag changes. We buy linear PE bags from Uline and double bag to help prevent punctures when moving them outside. We just tap the Beane filter tubes once a week to release the dust cake, but some build up gives you better filtering, up to the point where the pressure drop means you aren't collecting as much. For another reference point: 2 x 6" ports and 2 x 4" ports using a 7.5 HP collector pulling 4500 cfm @ 6" WG and 2500 cfm @ 10". Works quite well, but would not want less.

    tl;dr: Get a big dust collector.
    JR

  13. #13
    What does the manufacture say is needed for the widebelt? My current sander has two 7" ports, and I think the manufacturer spec'd 4200 cfm.

    My old widebelt was a 37" Timesavers speed sander, it only had a 4" port on it. It didn't really matter what you had pulling on it, a 4" pipe can only flow so much. Total design failure there.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Cache Valley, Utah
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    I'm another "direct vent outside" guy. I have a Safety Speed 36" and all my dust and chips go in a pile outside the shop, but I'm in a rural location. Right now I'm using an old Harbor Freight 2 HP blower that was originally part of their large single bag setup. With no bag or filter on the discharge I get more or less adequate flow for the sander, but it's a little light for my 18" planer.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Central WI
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    your limiting factor is the 6" port on a 37" machine. Of course you won't be sanding 37" boards all the time but you still need a blower that is capable of pulling high cfm through that 6" port. Don't compare units by cfm at low SP, but rather what they pull at 8-12". An impeller designed to operate under higher pressure will pull more velocity ( cfm ) through that port than another design that operates more efficiently at low pressure. Oversize the bags and look for an impeller that delivers under higher pressure. If the machine is dedicated to your WB, you might consider a radial fan with a little larger motor. Radials excell at your application but require a few more amps. Dave

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