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Thread: Hand Plane Poll...

  1. #1

    Hand Plane Poll...

    Hey Creekers with Callused Hands,
    I am a weekend warrior type woodworker and have an extensive collection of powered cast iron tools. With every project I complete, I find myself needing hand tools to increase the quality of my work. The number one thing that I find myself needing is a few good planes. I often have a glue up panel that just needs the slightest of tweaking to level out a seam or a cope and stick or frame door that needs the slightest trim off the end grain of a stile to even things up for an edge profile rout.

    That said…I know NOTHING about hand planes. I’ve read a lot but there is so much random info that I’m overwhelmed. So, I want to poll the professionals. I have determined that I think I need one block plane and one smoothing/jack plane (and a shoulder plane down the road). My questions are these.

    1. Can anyone point me to their two favorite planes (for the purposes listed above).
    2. Assuming that I don’t want to spend more than $200 each for these, which ones would you buy?
    3. What is a good sharpening system for under $150 to accompany these bad boys.
    4. If I were to buy a 3rd plane, would a shoulder plane be my best choice? (I do a lot of mortise and tenon work)

    Thanks in advance!
    GO POKES!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    My 2 cents:

    Block Plane: $20 to $179
    Old Stanley 60-1/2 or
    Lie-Nielsen 102 or
    Lie-Nielsen 60-1/2 or
    Lee Valley Apron or
    Lee Valley DX60

    Lee Valley Low Angle Jack: $219
    or an Old Stanley #4 & #5 ($20 to $50 each)

    Lee Valley Medium Shoulder Plane (but only by everyone's recommendation - I don't own one): $179

    Have fun.

    Brian
    Veni Vidi Vendi Vente! I came, I saw, I bought a large coffee!

  3. #3
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    I will second most of what Brian said.

    My suggestion is for a 60-1/2 or 65 equivalent block plane. The particular model would depend on your hand size. The 65 is bigger. I have not used one, but the 60-1/2R rabbeting block plane from Lie-Nielsen might help at killing two birds with one plane.

    A smoother recommendation would depend a bit more on knowing your needs. A few swipes over a small area to clean up a glue line, a #3, #4 or a #4-1/2 depending on your hand size. These planes are about the same length, but they get wider and heavier as the numbers get higher.

    Look here for links to more information about planes and such to get a better understanding:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=103805

    If you need to plane pieces longer than 20 - 30 inches, then a #5 or 5-1/2 may serve you better. The 1/2 sizes are wider.

    If you are buying used, I would suggest Stanley planes from about 1920 or earlier.

    A shoulder plane is handy for mortice and tenon work. They are also useful in a few other applications such as cutting half laps and when trimming an edge. I got lucky on an old Stanley 93. It is not as good as what is available today from LN or LV, but it does the job for me. I tried out a Bridge City shoulder plane and was very impressed, but for the money, the Stanley was about $80 and the BC is about $600. Bells and whistles are nice, but I'll just turn up the radio and sing along if the money is not in my pocket to spend.


    For sharpening, there are a lot of systems. For you price point, you may want to learn sharpening with the scary sharp method. Once you work out the kinks, then you may be better able to decide if you want to use diamond, ceramic, oil stones or water stones. Each of these can be an investment that will take you close to the $150 you mention.

    I have tried all but the ceramic stones. Each system has its benefits and its short falls.

    jim

  4. #4
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    Okay, here's my dos pesos:

    Let's start at sharpening: While a little ($20) over your budget, I recommend this (Norton's waterstone kit):

    http://www.nortonstonesstore.com/Sto...&productId=157

    I'd also recommend you pick up one of these:

    http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...072,43078&ap=1

    or if you're feeling wealthy, one of these (with the camber roller):

    http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...072,43078&ap=1

    Now, for planes, you have lots of choices. If I were you, and didn't plane anything too gnarly (highly figured or exotics), I might just buy a vintage Stanley 4 (Sweetheart - 1930s - or earlier) and a Lie Nielsen Stanley replacement blade. That will get your feet wet just fine, and nice ones can be had for well under $50 on eBay and elsewhere.

    Another good choice in my experience is the LN low angle jack (Stanley 62), but that's $245.

    As for a block plane, my very favorite because of its quality and versatility (it can do a ton of things for you INCLUDING shave tenon cheeks well) is LN's rabbet block at $165. It does everything a regular block does too, of course.

    As for a shoulder, my go to is the LN Large shoulder plane (styled after the Record 073), which goes for around $250.

    Frankly though, a good bet for tenon cheeks (and a ton of other stuff) is Lee Valley's router plane:

    http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...=1,41182,48945

    Well, those are some of my favorites, hope that helps.

  5. #5
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    By the way, I won't offer an opinion on any plane I haven't used. Here are mine - feel free to ask about any of these:


  6. #6
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    Aaron - A couple of thoughts. Based on what you said you needed to do, I'd buy a smoother first (this gets you the smoothing of glue lines on a panel, trimming small cabinet doors, etc..). While you can do this with a block plane, their small size means more work, and I find the grip on most any block plane not ideal for fairly large planing jobs - you want a "toted" plane.

    There are tons of choices, but you can narrow it down by looking at a larger perspective - do you want to spend time on tuning up a plane, or have one that's ready to go out of the box (so you spend your time learning to sharpen the blade and use it)? If the answer is the former, a Stanely (I'll expand Jim's suggestion and say that a pre-1960's Stanely may do what you want - the late models and current production are junk) will do the job, but everyone I know (and myself) finds them to be far better users with a replaced blade - I would recommend a Hock.

    If the answer is the latter, then you've a choice between Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley's offerings. They are not as cheap as an antique Stanley, but they are pretty cheap on an absolute scale. Frankly, I would avoid the "paralysis by analysis" that can result in parsing out the #3, #4, #4-1/2, Bevel Up vs. Bevel Down, etc... debate and just pick one that appeals to you. Any of them will certainly get the job done, and will be leagues better than a random orbit sander.

    For mortise and tenon work, you've lots of choices, but again, any of the L-N/L-V offerings will get the job done - just match the size to the size of work that you do most often. If it's large pieces, buy a large shoulder plane. If it's small pieces, buy a smaller one.

    Regarding the block plane - I guarantee that if you decide you need planes based on the smoother and the shoulder, you'll wind up with a block plane (and a good deal of other ones besides ).

  7. #7

    clarification

    I'll clarify a couple of things you guys asked.

    I do not want to have to do any "work" on the plane straight out of the box besides putting an edge on the blade.
    As far as planing/smoothing large boards, I have a 20" planer right now so the big stuff I can even out. I'm talking about tiny misalignments on edge glueups that aren't worth the risk of sending through the planer.

    So, I'm hearing a #4 low angle jack plane and a block plane would be my two best bets? I really like the idea of the LN rabbet block. Anybody else have this plane? Also, for a #4, is there any better plane between a LV and a LN?

    Also, is there anything wrong with the motorized sharpeners like the Sheppach Tiger or the Tormek or is a wetstone just better all around?
    Last edited by Aaron Hamilton; 03-18-2009 at 3:39 PM.
    GO POKES!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Hamilton View Post
    I do not want to have to do any "work" on the plane straight out of the box besides putting an edge on the blade.
    For your purposes, you would not likely have to do anything significant to a vintage Stanley. Some guys take fettling to extremes, but that is not really necessary to have avery good worker. I'd also ask you whether you expect your table saw, jointer, band saw, etc. to work without periodic upkeep? Why would you expect a plane to be different?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Hamilton View Post
    As far as planing/smoothing large boards, I have a 20" planer right now so the big stuff I can even out. I'm talking about tiny misalignments on edge glueups that aren't worth the risk of sending through the planer.
    This may not be a realistic expectation. Handplaning, just like machine planing, risks tearout too. Also, you often can't work on one localized (even tiny) "step" ona panel without working a much larger area, at least if you want to keep the panel flat. If panel work is a main thing you'll be doing, you may prefer a 4 1/2 for it's extra width.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Hamilton View Post
    Also, for a #4, is there any better plane between a LV and a LN?
    It's just a matter of personal preference really.

  9. #9
    I totally get what you are saying on the localized planing. I intend to learn the method on how to properly do things with hand planes. I just want an alternative to running the board through the big planer.


    I assume I'll probably pick up these first two and then start collecting like all the other guys I see on the neander side.
    GO POKES!!

  10. #10
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    My $0.02

    For slight adjustments to glue-ups with low tearout risk you might want to consider the Veritas (#05P29.01) or another brand of scraper plane. I find mine very useful and more versitile than might be expected. Maybe you just need a card scraper and a holder.

    I see you have the Veritas Sean. What do you think?

    I have picked up a couple of pre WWII Stanley/Bailey #4s in very good condition fro $15 each from a local antiques dealer. great planes.

    My LN low angle block with adjustable throat is largely responsible for opening my eyes to what a quality tool can do.

    Even the best of these will likely need a little tuning. I just spent 20 minutes flattening a Hock blade. Not bad but not much is just right, right out of the box.

    I can't speak to other ceramic stones but if you get the Spyderco stones you will need a diamond stone, some elbow grease and too much time to flatten them. Having said that, my understanding is that they should stay flat for a very long time and they do give a very nice edge.
    RD

  11. #11
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    Richard,

    I like the Veritas scraper fine. I bought it after reading a FWW article about it, and decided to see if it was better than an 80 or a card. It definitely is easier on the hands, produces a more regular surface (probably just my own poor technique with the cards), and works well. It saved my butt on some really curly cherry that tore out no matter what direction of plane I came at it with (I {gulp} was almost ready to reach for the shoed belt sander!). ;-)

  12. #12

    Planes

    Lie=Nielsen planes are ready out of the box. The blade will cut. That said I do always sharpen them on waterstones. If you watch the video on plane blade sharpening by David Charlesworth he will show you how easy it is to sharpen a plane blade with only 3 waterstones -- 800, 1200 and 8000 grit. You will also want go get some wet/dry sand paper and a granite block. All of this should be at about the $150 mark.

    My first two planes were the LN 5 1/2 and the 60 1/2 Low angle block plane. The 60 1/2 is THE low angle block plane. Everyone raves about it. And I confirm that it is marvelous. Works great on end grain. As one poster stateed you could get the rabbet block plane and this would work for your shoulder trimming as well.

    The 5 1/2 makes a great smoother and is long enough to be useful for jointing and flattening boards. You could also get a second blade and put a large camber on it and use it as a scrub plane.

    So in summary, the 60 1/2 rabbet and the 5 1/2 represent a lot of bang for the buck in that they can perform a great many tasks. I also prefer the LN over the LV but I do own some LV planes because LN doesn't make them and they perform well.

    Beware the slipperyness of the slope you are about to step on.

  13. #13
    I use a cabinet scraper by sandvik or crown tools to remove, glue flattening, dealing with wavy grains, and genral smooting instead of sand paper ( I use a 5" 100 grit wheel to put my bur on )

    for sharpening plane blades I would use the " scary sharp" method to start

    then I would go to japanese water stones when you got some bucks to spare

    I use old stanely planes just make sure the blade is not pitted and you can produce nice cuts

    for info on old stanely planes Patricks Blood and gore is a great
    http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

  14. #14
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    Todd,

    I find your comments about teh 5 1/2 interesting. Just so Aaron knows that there are a variety of opinions out there to consider, I offer the following.

    - I think Ian Kirby did a lot to bring the 5 1/2 some popularity as he advocated the 7 jointer and same blade width 5 1/2 as super smoother (super in terms of large, I guess).

    - I have one, and don't see the attraction for the following reasons:

    - a smoother, by definition is supposed to have a short sole so that it can smooth localized areas without registering on higher adjacent areas - the 5 1/2 has a sole as long as jack (indeed, it's just an extra wide jack)

    - a jointer is supposed to have a long sole so that it registers on as much of an edge or face as possible for truing - the 7 is much better for that with its significantly longer sole

    - unless you are a really big guy, the 5 1/2 can see really cumbersome as a smoother - far far from a nible 3 or 4, or even 4 1/2

    - I can't imagine a 5 1/2 as a decent scrub since its blade is so wide - a true scrub is narrow for a reason: when you are going deep, you want to go narrow or the thing is gonna be a bear to push

    Aaron, as always, there is never one size (or method) fits all in woodworking. These are just some thoughts to inform your decision.

  15. #15
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    "So, I'm hearing a #4 low angle jack plane and a block plane would be my two best bets? I really like the idea of the LN rabbet block. Anybody else have this plane? Also, for a #4, is there any better plane between a LV and a LN?

    Also, is there anything wrong with the motorized sharpeners like the Sheppach Tiger or the Tormek or is a wetstone just better all around?"

    I have the LN rabbet block - also the LN LA 60 series block, the standard angle 60 series block, the #4, the #4-1/2, the #5-1/2, a #8, and a bunch of other ones that's more than you'd want to know (the slope is indeed very slippery ).

    Regarding M&T - while I suppose it's possible to use the rabbet block to tune shoulders, I use a shoulder plane for this purpose (I've all 4 LN sizes). There's good reason why you want a tall, narrow plane for this purpose, and the L-N rabbet block isn't ideally suited for this task IMO because of the grip - your fingers get in the way. What it does do well is adjust the thickness of the tenon (by planing the cheek), and of course its main purpose, which is adjusting rabbets. An alternative to using a plane, BTW, for adjusting the cheeks is to use one of LN's joinery floats - they work very well for this purpose, and is what I use most often.

    Regarding the large panels you're referring to, I would get a smoother. I'm assuming you're not after getting the whole panel dead flat (in which case a jointer plane is what you want - a #7 or a #8), just to remove slight mis-alignments. In this case, the short sole of a smoother will allow you to do this without having to plane the stuffing out of large areas of the panel.

    Regarding LA, bevel up planes - they work as advertised, but be aware that they can be more difficult to set up and use for a newbie than a standard Bailey design. It's not rocket science, but you will have to camber the blade to a greater extent than a bevel-down plane, and at least in my shop, there's no great performance advantage to them. They do, however, feel different (lower center of gravity), which some users prefer.

    Regarding sharpening - You don't absolutely have to have a grinder, but I think you will want one at some point. The reason is that hand-honing is worlds easier with the hollow grind to the bevel that a grinder yields. I have a Tormek, but you can just as easily learn to use a (cheaper) dry grinder for the purpose. You can also get by with a 1000 grit and 8000 grit Norton water stone (and some means to flatten them - wet dry sandpaper and a chinese granite surface plate is perhaps the cheapest option) for now, at least until you've rounded the bevel sufficiently to the point where it requires re-grinding. You can do this by hand on a coarse stone (220 grit waterstone, washita oilstone, 220 grit wet dry, etc...), but it does take a while to grind back a flat bevel because you're taking the whole bevel back.

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