Pricing

[Dennis Lopeman]

SO WOW - you guys have some great stuff here! I love it. I'm slowly getting myself set up to start some real projects of my own. Many of these projects will be for stuff around the house. But then my thoughts always seem to migrate to "Gee, I wonder how much I could get for doing such and such?" Make me a little mad-money on the side, perhaps (once I get good enough, of course!)

Well, I proprose or suggest or request (LOL) that when you guys post your production and project pictures, that you also mention what you think a fair price would be. Now, some of you mention that you did such and such for a client... So there must have been a price there, right?

Some of this may be personal info, I don't know. So maybe a price RANGE would be for comfortable... I'll I'm trying to do is get a FEEL for what stuff is profittable and what not. You know?

Your thoughts? Suggestions? And I don't mean to rattle any cages.

TIA

[Marc Casebolt]

Here are a couple of pics of a desk I made for a guy a few years ago. The price was $14,000, and it should have been much higher. I did OK on the price, but you need to pay yourself an honest wage AND keep the shop open. It's tough now to make a living at this, but maybe that's not your intention. If you just want to do favors, that's something else.

Your time is worth something, your skill is worth something, your tools need to be maintained. Most people (customers) don't realize just how much lumber costs, let alone want to pay you for your time.

This is a hobby for me now, and I am enjoying it again. I still make things for friends, but not for cash.

I didn't mean to rant about this, but I guess I did.

Marc

[Dennis Lopeman]

Here are a couple of pics of a desk I made for a guy a few years ago. The price was $14,000, and it should have been much higher. I did OK on the price, but you need to pay yourself an honest wage AND keep the shop open. It's tough now to make a living at this, but maybe that's not your intention. If you just want to do favors, that's something else.

Your time is worth something, your skill is worth something, your tools need to be maintained. Most people (customers) don't realize just how much lumber costs, let alone want to pay you for your time.

This is a hobby for me now, and I am enjoying it again. I still make things for friends, but not for cash.

I didn't mean to rant about this, but I guess I did.

Marc

No need to appoligize for ranting - this is the kind of honest feedback that I'm looking for.

And that MIDI station is beautiful! I could have been a pianist, also... but chose computer work for its stability... Who knew, though, that it would never serve my creative side?

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Dennis, as I recall there have been quite a few discussions on this forum on how to price projects for sale. The opinions vary widely and I'll let you search out the other posts to read them. But MY opinion is this...
I do this for fun, I have a full time job making nearly 6 figures a year. I don't need to make big bucks off my hobby. If I did, my hobby would become not so fun, very quickly. So basically, I charge whatever the heck I feel like it.
For friends, as long as I'm covering the costs of materials, and making a few bucks for my time (and my tool fund), I'm happy. For some of the stuff I've done, I've said "damn, I should have charged more for this", and lots of times when I break it down, I'm only making about $6 an hour for my time. On some occasions, customers have told me that they would've paid much more for my work. Oh well. For friends I keep the prices reasonable, for strangers, I don't mind jacking it up a bit.
But here is two things I tell all my "customers".
1. I'll do my best work, and make sure your happy with the end product.
2. The price won't change. Once I give you a final price, that's it. If the project takes me longr, or I screw up and have to buy more materials, thats my fault.
Like I said, I do this for fun and experience.

Anyway, that's my view on it. Maybe one day I'll make stuff worth $14000 to someone, but for now, my work is relatively in-expensive.

Examples: Oak bathroom vanity for a friend - $1500
Several large aquarium stands in the $750 - $1000 range
Solid maple (with birdseye) side table - $350
Small keepsake boxes - $60 - $100 ea
Solid maple sideboard / shelving unit - $700

Ryan

[John Keeton]

I don't sell my woodworking - yet. Someday, maybe.

But, here is my take on reduced prices. In my vocation, I NEVER reduce my rates - for anyone. However, I will do pro bono work - free work. But I choose the time and recipient.

I simply never want the word out that I will work cheap - it is rarely appreciated and just creates problems that I do not want to deal with. I have been doing this for 36 years and learned that lesson early on the hard way.

I feel the same way about woodworking. I would rather work for free than to work cheap. At least with that, I don't feel resentment, and I have the pleasure and option to do something special for someone.

Perhaps that means I will never be able to sell my work, and I am OK with that. If it turns out differently in years to come, I am OK with that as well.

[Ed Sallee]

I have just started selling my stuff.... the first one went at the price that I was asking.... $750 for a humidor. Which by all accounts from all of the Cigar Shops that I visited - was a good price.

The second project that is going "on the block" are my recently finished Jewelry Box & Valet. They are going up to a gallery on a consignment basis and I will be looking for $600 for the pair..... which is on the low end of the scale, but, I want to get in the door and make something happen.

I developed a spreadsheet to help me with my pricing.... what I do is put in the actual measurements of each piece with a tab for each kind of wood..... this calculates the actual board feet used - and I add on 15% for waste - this will give me a cost of the wood. On another tab, I can account for the hardware - which is a direct pass through. Lastly, is the labor tab. I can adjust the hourly rate as I see fit.... but, on the humidor, I used $35.00 per hour and on the jewelry box & valet, I put only $15...

I then add on a $35 charge for shop supplies - sandpaper, finishing material, etc..... to come up with the final price.

One note on the labor..... I actually use my Ipod stopwatch and push start and stop to account for the real time invested in the project. It would be real easy to lose track down there, because all of the time in the shop is not spent on the project. There is some time when I'm waiting for glue to dry that I'll read through my magazines or clean up and put things away....etc.... but... that's it, in a nutshell.

[Dennis Lopeman]

Dennis, as I recall there have been quite a few discussions on this forum on how to price projects for sale. The opinions vary widely and I'll let you search out the other posts to read them. But MY opinion is this...
I do this for fun, I have a full time job making nearly 6 figures a year. I don't need to make big bucks off my hobby. If I did, my hobby would become not so fun, very quickly. So basically, I charge whatever the heck I feel like it.
For friends, as long as I'm covering the costs of materials, and making a few bucks for my time (and my tool fund), I'm happy. For some of the stuff I've done, I've said "damn, I should have charged more for this", and lots of times when I break it down, I'm only making about $6 an hour for my time. On some occasions, customers have told me that they would've paid much more for my work. Oh well. For friends I keep the prices reasonable, for strangers, I don't mind jacking it up a bit.
But here is two things I tell all my "customers".
1. I'll do my best work, and make sure your happy with the end product.
2. The price won't change. Once I give you a final price, that's it. If the project takes me longr, or I screw up and have to buy more materials, thats my fault.
Like I said, I do this for fun and experience.

Anyway, that's my view on it. Maybe one day I'll make stuff worth $14000 to someone, but for now, my work is relatively in-expensive.

Examples: Oak bathroom vanity for a friend - $1500
Several large aquarium stands in the $750 - $1000 range
Solid maple (with birdseye) side table - $350
Small keepsake boxes - $60 - $100 ea
Solid maple sideboard / shelving unit - $700

Ryan

Ryan - you and I are almost in the same exact scenario - I've been so close to 6 figures a couple times but never tipped over!! LOL

Anyway - I make a comfortable living and it would be rather difficult to switch to a completely new and different career. Especially since I still have so much to learn.

But those prices you listed are about what I was imagining. You should post a couple pics (or I'll just search on your name later and see if you posted them already)...

Anyway - fishtanks are great - and some pretty good pricing - you can learn and repeat a bunch of techniques - different joints like dove, finger, mortise/tenon, etc - different panels - get creative. All the while, making a little monetary and scholastic profit!!

Thanks for you input!

[Dennis Lopeman]

I have just started selling my stuff.... the first one went at the price that I was asking.... $750 for a humidor. Which by all accounts from all of the Cigar Shops that I visited - was a good price.

The second project that is going "on the block" are my recently finished Jewelry Box & Valet. They are going up to a gallery on a consignment basis and I will be looking for $600 for the pair..... which is on the low end of the scale, but, I want to get in the door and make something happen.

I developed a spreadsheet to help me with my pricing.... what I do is put in the actual measurements of each piece with a tab for each kind of wood..... this calculates the actual board feet used - and I add on 15% for waste - this will give me a cost of the wood. On another tab, I can account for the hardware - which is a direct pass through. Lastly, is the labor tab. I can adjust the hourly rate as I see fit.... but, on the humidor, I used $35.00 per hour and on the jewelry box & valet, I put only $15...

I then add on a $35 charge for shop supplies - sandpaper, finishing material, etc..... to come up with the final price.

One note on the labor..... I actually use my Ipod stopwatch and push start and stop to account for the real time invested in the project. It would be real easy to lose track down there, because all of the time in the shop is not spent on the project. There is some time when I'm waiting for glue to dry that I'll read through my magazines or clean up and put things away....etc.... but... that's it, in a nutshell.

SpreadSheet - great idea! And I didn't even think of slipping in sandpaper, glue, and stuff. I just sort of thought those would be shop "expenses!"

[Dennis Lopeman]

So this is nice feedback, gents.

My idea was that when we post projects (for now on) just give a ballpark price, if you can.

What do you guys think of that? I know stuff varies widely - but it can really help newcomers that are starting as hobbyists with a desire to eventually go professional. I have noticed that there are quite a few professional woodworking guys on here...

Like, John Keeton - that project you are working on now - I've been following it (and waiting for the next set of pics!) - I know you aren't charging anything, but maybe when you are done, just tally up and guestimate about what you think you could charge.

And this is just a request on my part. It's such a subjective topic. I mean, that piano MIDI station desk from Marc = 14 grand!! Wow. I would not have guessed even close to that. So, then I think back to that one guy (I forgot his name) who's working on his second huge desk, but with curved panels this time... He showed pics of the desk he built several years ago... That thing is BEAUTIFUL!! If I use 14,000 for Marc's desk as a starting point - then this other desk must be like 50 grand... But maybe it was more - or less...

I'm just nosey, I guess!

[Dennis Lopeman]

That desk I mentioned is here: Edward Alexander
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=107507

JUST AWESOME!

[Jack Roberts]

I have yet to come up with a good method of pricing. Ive been told by folks in the buisness around here that if Im not getting at least 10% rejection Im not charging enough, and since I've never been rejected I guess I should charge more. lol The cradles that I posted on here the other day I would ask around 800.00 for. This is a maple kitchen I did for my nephew, I would charge around 16,000.00 for it without the countertops. Perhaps someone can comment whether Im high or low ?

[David Keller NC]

"But, here is my take on reduced prices. In my vocation, I NEVER reduce my rates - for anyone. However, I will do pro bono work - free work. But I choose the time and recipient."

I think John's got a very good point here. I sell most of the things I make, but occasionally will make something fairly simple on request, and refuse to charge for it. Typically, this is for a family member or a friend, and I think it's better to do it for free than charge what the person thinks it's worth.

Generally speaking, most of the non-woodworking population has absolutely no idea what goes into a piece from the labor aspect, and bases their value judgement solely on the wood the project contains. As anyone here on SMC knows, that's typically going to be about 10-20% of the cost, and I'd rather give a project to a friend/relative and limit the number of requests because they understand that "free" is imposing on my time, than either shock them with what a project truly costs, or let them pay about a quarter on the dollar, and encourage more requests because the person thinks it's an equitable trade.

[Dennis Lopeman]

"But, here is my take on reduced prices. In my vocation, I NEVER reduce my rates - for anyone. However, I will do pro bono work - free work. But I choose the time and recipient."

I think John's got a very good point here. I sell most of the things I make, but occasionally will make something fairly simple on request, and refuse to charge for it. Typically, this is for a family member or a friend, and I think it's better to do it for free than charge what the person thinks it's worth.

Generally speaking, most of the non-woodworking population has absolutely no idea what goes into a piece from the labor aspect, and bases their value judgement solely on the wood the project contains. As anyone here on SMC knows, that's typically going to be about 10-20% of the cost, and I'd rather give a project to a friend/relative and limit the number of requests because they understand that "free" is imposing on my time, than either shock them with what a project truly costs, or let them pay about a quarter on the dollar, and encourage more requests because the person thinks it's an equitable trade.

THAT is a very well put observation/perspective. I thought about it (not long) and imagined this scenario with any of my family... and you are right... they would (as I would) think that they could get a good deal and make more requests and expect the same great rates - and they would feel justified since they are still paying!! Free would change that perception, for sure - now they would be imposing.

Good stuff. Keep 'em comin'!!

[Marc Casebolt]

This is a maple kitchen I did for my nephew, I would charge around 16,000.00 for it without the countertops. Perhaps someone can comment whether Im high or low ?

Jack,

In my opinion that price is WAY LOW. Did you install it? Then it's even WAYER LOW (is wayer a word?)

I'm out here in California, and lumber is getting like gold. Maybe it's a lot cheaper where you are, but it would have to be free to make a profit on that job (It looks very nice by the way). Perhaps you did it for a favor, and that's cool, but if you're trying to make a living please pay yourself better.

Just my opinion, which I'm told is mostly bull.

Marc