Best approach and price$$$.

[Tyler Howell]

Best approach and price$$$.

I'm long past due finishing this kitchen project. The PM66 is ready to do its duty for the final push. What's best approach for molding and trim work. I have a 104 year old craftsman style home with Red Oak trim through out. The base boards are 7" with a 2" milled cap and 3/4" quarter round on the bottom, I clearly can't afford to duplicate it but would like to carry a modified theme into the kit. with Red oak detailing.

Could I save a few coins and get a decent product by:

1. laminate 1/4 b/d RO plywood onto 3/8 MDF and put a solid oak cap on that?? *
2. go straight ply/oak veneer with cap.
3. Dumb it down with the newer style trims?

*Was thinking about Todd's library project!

I know some of the newer mill work is a veneer on pine or fir substrate and not bullet proof like some of the old stuff.

Now John, If I had our molding machine up her??

Also with sheet goods is it Kosher to spray or roll on the finish before cutting expecting some touch-up after. Most of the cut edges will be covered.
Haven't started pricing yet which is part of this equation. Time is getting short too.
Thanks in advance.
PS isn't Technology wonderful I'm uploading this from the back of a van racing up the freeway. Thank goodness it's not my cell phone account. I'm not going to tell her !

[Jamie Buxton]

Tyler ---

What's "b/d RO" plywood? However, if it is any kind of plywood, I don't see much value in laminating it to MDF. Quarter-inch hardwood veneer plywood costs only a little less than three-quarter; the cost is mostly in the face veneer. After you buy a sheet of MDF, your cost will be very close. And then you've got the labor of doing the lamination.

While you're concerned about the durability of veneer plywood in this application, you really have the base board protected pretty well. The quarter-round at the bottom and the cap at the top completely cover the cut edges. I'd probably choose this approach.

And boy, I wouldn't do a modern style unless you're working in an addition whose style is different from the rest of the house.

Yes, you can prefinish trim, be it either solid wood or veneer. It is much less laborious than finishing it in place, particularly if you have a spray gun. You get to finish it and sand it in your shop on sawhorses, instead of masking it and crawling around on your hands and knees to finish it in place. You can even prefinish entire sheets of plywood and rip your 7" strips off it. To fill nail holes in prefinished stuff, look for wax pencils with a color which matches your wood. You rub the wax into the hole and rub off the excess. It matches remarkably well if you pick the correct color of pencil.

[Ted Shrader]

Tyler -

I like your idea of plywood ripped down with a cap on it and base shoe. Gotta go with Jamie, why not use ¾" oak? You could even spring for some Q/S plywood that would go with the rest of the house.

Ted

[Mike Cutler]

Tyler. Option 2 sounds allright. I definitely wouldn't do option 3.
Pre finishing wood is a great time saver! It also aids in achieving a more uniform color and texture. Once you do it the first time, you'll do it alot more. After the finish has set apply blue masking tape along the cut line of the blade on both sides of the material, you will have very little touch up to do later.
One question. Are you sure it is red oak and not white oak? If it is red oak, do a few test finishes. From personal experience red oak adds a slightly green, flat hue when stained. White oak on the other hand is more predictable. I think it has something to do with the tannin content.You may need to use a grain sealer first.
I agree. It ain't fair that John is keeping "our" molder in the Dairy Land

[John Miliunas]

7" base boards? Whew! Yeah, go for the ply and caps. Now, as for the top molding...You *KNOW* where I live! No, the planer is not leaving my shop, (the attached chain w/padlock is only 20' long! ) but you're *MORE* than welcome to use it, if'n you can't find the proper profile pre-made. I've got several profiles cutters for it here and would be happy to shoot pics and send them to you to see if there's anything close. There are also a number of standard cutters available pretty reasonable. Last case would be to have custom cutters made (which is what I'll be needing to do!). A bit more pricey, though. Obviously, 1/4-round is widely available. The machine spits out the profiled molding in pretty short order, so it just depends on how much you need to have done. Give me a yell and we can make it happen!

[Steven Wilson]

Have you checked with a Millwork shop like Siwek Lumber. There was in place in Burnsville that I use to go to to get Birdseye Maple scraps that would do fairly short runs of molding. You could use plywood for the base, and then have the other profiles milled for you.

[Mark Singer]

Tyler,
Now I know why that van was driving so crazy. Either drive or play on your computer ...not at the same time. and don't do your nails.

The plywood will start to look bad if water from cleaning the floors wets it.

[Tom Sweeney]

I'll defer to just about anybody else . . .
but it seems to me that it would be worth looking for a local sawyer to see if you can buy the oak cheap enough. The price of plywood is astronomical right now. I know I can go to a guy close by & get rough sawn white oak (not sure if he has red oak) for $1 bf - not QS obviously but still. I also bought some recently, from Alan turner's sale, for about the same price - maybe $1.50) so it is definately out there at prices that might add up to cheaper than the ply option. He definately has 7" wide boards also. Seems to me that it would be a nicer looking job & like Mark says - might hold up better. You'd need to joint, plane & dimension the wood but that would be half the fun - plus you could visit that Miliunas guy & make the profile for your cap & base trim pieces. After his bathroom remodel I'm sure he'd be the guy to go to for tips & tricks of the trade - unless Todd burch would head up your way to help out

[Jack Young]

Tyler-

How you get quarter-sawn material to use is probably going to be a happy accident. It would be that for me.

As to the pre-finish, it's the only way to go. I have, for a couple of years now, been replacing all the schlock wood trim and doors in my "ski-lodge" style house with clear pine stained in a dark brown mahogany and finished with satin poly and have tried nearly every variation on the theme when it comes to stain and finish for such work.

What seems to work best is to cut the material to size, then use a glazing process, which involves sealing the wood with a shellac sealer to prevent blotching (pine is bad for that), which is a step one might avoid with oak, but the sealer gives a neutral base for all the material. Get the color where you want it on the darker pieces, then use additional coats of stain on the lighter ones until they are all alike. Then finish coat(s) of whatever you want, though water-borne poly deadens the look. I think the Zar stains give the greatest possibility for mixing to the desired color and tone.

One local hardware store here is managed by a chap who can take any piece of bare wood (as long as it is lighter than the desired color) and create the proper mix of stock Zar or Bartley (or even analyne, etc) colors to get it to match existing wood finishes. Perhaps there is someone in your area who is good at that. The art then becomes bringing all the disparate pieces to the same intensity. So it involves playing around with scraps, and, for comparison, doing all the pieces before installation where they can be seen side by side. If it isn't trouble, it probably isn't worth it and likely won't satisfy you.

The best to you in your effort.

Jack

P.S. - I had never seen the Bosch jigsaw which has the anti-splintering plate. I don't think the newer ones do, do they?

[Steve Jenkins]

I think that 3/4 ply with a solid cap would be fine. Wheather it actually would save money depends on the cost of ply vs solid. As for the shoe mold look at it closely and make sure it is 1/4 round. Most shoe mold isn't. it's easy enough to make though by matching up a radius cutter with the shoe mold you have and using your router table with the fence set to not do a complete roundover. If you look it may be that a portion of a 3/4-1" roundover bit will match.
steve

[Todd Burch]

Tyler, I wouldn't laminate - it takes too long. The other options are better, and I would personally go with the plywood base and applied mouldings (top cap). Quarter round or shoe moulding - I try to stay away from, but they SURE make the job go faster (by not having to scribe the base to the floor).

[Tyler Howell]

Tyler, I wouldn't laminate - it takes too long. The other options are better, and I would personally go with the plywood base and applied mouldings (top cap). Quarter round or shoe moulding - I try to stay away from, but they SURE make the job go faster (by not having to scribe the base to the floor).

Hey Todd thanks, Not sure what you mean here???

[Jim Becker]

I think Todd meant use the 3/4" RO plywood for the 7" base and then cap it with RO moldings. Rip cuts are fast as compared to both ripping and laminating the MDF and ply...

[Todd Burch]

....I try to stay away from QUARTER ROUNDS OR SHOE MOULDINGS, but they....

Sorry for the typo! Todd

[Tyler Howell]

Thanks all for your suggestions. This is what I'm doing.

Stopped at the bank and took out another mortgage on my house then bought hard woods. Kinda spoiled, I've been recycling and dumpster diving in the in the hard wood department for years.

Put the beast to work ripping S4S red oak for molding. Milled my own stops and 1/4 rounds. PC router table and jointer did their tasks well. (crunched the numbers and not counting the saw, jointer, router, DC and electricity It's about a wash ) Didn't even attempt the corner bead and crown molding. Had a friend hook me up with a whole sale molding reseller.

Need to work on my lay out and cut list procedures, more waste than I wanted. First time on a project this big.

I didn't have time to select and purchase rough sawn stock. The DeWalt 735 still hasn't had a good work out. I am trying to be proactive and hunt down stock for future projects.

Slathered on some Velvet Oil, rubbed her down good per instructions and going to finish off with some good wax. Sealed the end cuts per Mark's warning. and hope to start the install tonight.

The PC 19.2 cordless C saw that I've been bad mouthing really found its niche. On an old modified saw guide with a 60 tooth PC Riptide blade, I got real clean, smooth cuts with no tear out. Very pleased. Pix don't do the grain justice, some real purty stuff, and the Velvet Oil was fun to work with. I've used Danish oil before and this wasn't as toxic. Disposed of Rags in the correct way.

Thanks for looking and thanks for your help. More to follow.