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Thread: #4 smooth plane - proper bevel angle

  1. #1
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    #4 smooth plane - proper bevel angle

    I just got a used Stanley Bailey #4 plane and I'm trying to sharpen it. The bevel angle looks to be more acute than 25 deg. I honed it and it's nice and sharp, but is only taking dust and thin slivers. Doesn't feel like it's cutting right. Feels like it's scraping more than slicing.

    What is the proper bevel angle for this? Another dumb question: the bevel goes DOWN, right?

    Thanks in advance - shawn

  2. 25 degrees is the basic angle geometry for bench planes; at this point don't worry about micro bevels and effective angles for squirrly grain, you just want it to work. If the angle is not 25, regrind to establish a new primary bevel angle, and then sharpen to that angle. Yes, bevel down. Also make sure your frog is adjusted correctly and the mating surfaces between the frog and the sole match nicely.

  3. #3
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    Thanks, Richard. Exactly what I was looking for.

  4. #4
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    Shawn - I'm going to ask a dumb question here - when you say that the angle is more acute than 25 degrees, I'm assuming you mean "acute" in geometry terms, which means that the bevel is thnner than that - say 15 degrees. If so, it's likely that the blade's dulling instantly when you put it to wood, as anything smaller than 25 degrees makes the edge too fragile to work in all but the softest species - like eastern white pine.

    If the angle's more obtuse than 25 degrees, it's possible that the bevel itself is rubbing on the wood instead of the edge. Generally speaking, the bevel must be more acute than about 37 degrees on a bailey-style plane to prevent interference. You can confirm this by coloring the back of the bevel with a magic marker, re-installing and adjusting the blade, and giving it a pass over a plank. If any black marks get transferred, the bevel is rubbing instead of the edge.

    If the problem is that the bevel really is too thin, you don't have to re-grind the whole bevel - you can simply put a very thin (1/32nd of an inch or less) micro-bevel on the edge that's about 10 degrees steeper, and the plane should work fine.

  5. #5
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    Also make sure your blade is sharp (very sharp) and the chip breaker mates tightly to the back of the blade (no light test). There should be a smooth transition between the back of the blade & the chip breaker. The whole blade/chip breaker assembly must sit absolutely flat on the frog.

    I recently been through similar experience. I was lucky to have a mentor who show me what a proper tune plane look & feel like and how all the parts should fit together. After that, it was relatively straight forward.

  6. #6
    A regular Stanley #4 bench plane is a bevel down plane. Assuming you have a 45* frog, you can sharpen the blade up to about 35* and you won't have any problems. The higher the angle, the longer the edge will last (meaning a 35* bevel angle will last longer than a 25* bevel angle).

    The higher angle will not affect the cutting. The cutting is determined by the angle that the blade hits the wood, which is 45* due to the frog angle. The only thing to worry about with the bevel angle is that there's enough clearance between the bevel and the wood. So a 50* bevel wouldn't work because the back of the blade would hit the wood before the front of the blade.

    A lot of people recommend a 25* bevel angle for bevel down blades, but all a 25* angle does (compared to a 35*) is get dull quicker because the edge does not have as much strength.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  7. #7
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    Awesome advice from all, THANKS. I'll sharpen to 35, then!

    Scary sharp, here I come!

  8. #8
    For a smoother, wouldn't a primary of 30* be fine? Then do a secondary at 35* and then a 1 or 2* micro bevel?

    I believe D. Charlesworth recommends that setup...personally I'm using a 25* primary, 30* secondary and then a microbevel. I'm mainly using cherry at the moment and I'm getting great performance and results. I am using a york pitch frog in my smoother, however.

    I think a primary of 35 is a bit steep and any 2nd-ary bevel after that may start to get difficult...you can't really go wrong w/ a primary of 35 though...its not like you're going to screw something up really. It might be a bit more work to grind in a 35 primary...not sure.

    Just another .02.

  9. #9
    John's right. A lower primary with a secondary bevel to 35* is the right way to go IMO.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #10
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    Yeah - One thought about this is that depending on how you restore a slightly dull edge to a plane blade, a steep primary bevel can be a real disadvantage. In my case, I strop the blades as one would a carving tool. The advantage as it's lightning fast - about 3 strokes across a leather charged with honing compound and you're back in business. The downside is that no matter how careful you at, after 5 or 6 of these trips to the honing strop, the bevel immediately behind the edge gets steeper and steeper. Not a problem if the primary's at 25 degrees, but I think it'd cause problems if the primary was at 35 degrees.

  11. #11
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    Strop whatcha doin cause I'm about to ruin

    (hat tipped to Humpty).

    How about leaving the primary where it is now - 15-20, making a secondary at 25 and then a micro at 30?

    I don't have a strop, a worksharp, or decent waterstones. I'm still monkeying with sandpaper...

  12. #12
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    Shawn there's not need to make a "triple bevel". Just make a small secondary at 30 degrees, and you're good to go. The weakness referred to by us on this thread is microscopic - at the very least you'd require a magnifying lens to see the chips in the edge. That's still enough to dull the iron's cutting edge and leave visible tracks in your work, but because this weakness is so small, you can accomplish what you want by putting a 1/32nd of an inch (or even smaller) 30 degree bevel at the edge.

  13. #13
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    Hi Shawn,

    If you want to reset the whole bevel angle on your plane blade to 25 degrees, or whatever, PM me. Doing that with Scary Sharp will take forever. I'll get your plane blade set up and sharp in less than 15 minutes.

  14. #14
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    A simple rule of thumb for a stanley number 4, would be a 25 degree primary bevel and a 5 degree microbevel (total 30 degrees).

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