Having trouble dating stanley plane

[Dan O'Connor]

I bought this at a flea market today for 10. It is 11.5 inches with a 1.75 blade. According to the blood and gore site, that makes it a 5 1/4 jack produced from 21-83. However, using a plane dating flowchart I get different results. There are zero patent dates, no raised ring, no plane number on bed, a recessed lever cap, and a frog receiver with a broad rectuangular area with arched rear -> which dates it a type 4. However, according to rexmill, the type 4 doesn't have a lateral adjustment lever, which this does. These also seem to have a different frog style. It has nothing cast on the bed except Stanley at the front. The lateral adjustment lever has nothing on it and it is two piece with the circle at the attachment. The adjustment knob is brass with 3 rings.

It has a sweetheart blade with made in usa smaller than the notched box surrounding the Stanley.

I realize that the cap, blade and breaker may not be original. I have a number 4 type 15 that has the same style frog with the frog adjustment screw.

I'm guessing from the frog and blade that this is an early sweetheart model less the adjustment screw, but the bed castings are inconsistent with the information available maybe because this is cited as a model designed for schools.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[David Keller NC]

What you're seeing isn't at all unusual. Many flea market Stanley planes have replaced parts, and Stanley also did this - they didn't just toss the previous type's parts, they used them up, which results in a fair number of tools out there that have a hybrid "typing", though the parts are factory-original.

One clue as to whether the parts are original to the plane or a later replacement is the actual type of the parts themselves - if you've got a type 4 plane with a type 7 frag, for example, you can be pretty sure that the frog is a later replacement. A type 4 plane with a type 3 or 5 frog would likely be an original assemblage from Stanley.

[Dan O'Connor]

Thanks David, but isn't it the case that the bed is designed for a certain frog style? I'd like to date the bed, since I can't find any bed with zero dates, no raised ring, that says stanley only (no bailey, no USA, etc.)

[John Shuk]

Did you offer to pay for dinner?
Sorry.

[Dan O'Connor]

Did you offer to pay for dinner?
Sorry.

Maybe I should have changed the title of the post to "Have 5 1/4 and trouble dating"

[Rick Whitehead]

I think you have a no. 1105 "Foursquare" household jack plane.
The "Foursquare" line of tools was a cheaper line of tools that Stanley produced for the early do-it-yourselfer. The tools were produced from 1923 to 1935, but were sold until the stock ran out.
The Foursquare planes were three block planes, a smooth plane the same size as a regular no 4, a household jack plane the same size as a 5-1/4. and a jack plane the same size as a regular no 5.The block planes had no throat adjustment, and the smooth planes had no frog adjustment screws.They were marked with a Foursquare decal,but some of the planes had the emblem cast into the lever cap.
I had one of these once, and it sounds like yours is identical to mine.
The collector value diminishes if the Foursquare emblem is missing.They aren't worth that much anyway (with some exceptions), so I would use and enjoy your plane.
Rick

[Danny Burns]

Not to be demeaning, but you are having trouble dating Stanley, then may be trying a girl instead might help? ......................................

[David Keller NC]

"Thanks David, but isn't it the case that the bed is designed for a certain frog style?"

Not necessarily. Some of the frog types on Stanley bench planes are interchangeable, some are not.