Getting the rust off

[Brian Burrows]

Hello my name is Brian. I think this may be my first post on here. Ive been a member for awhile but have never posted I think. Just kind of sat back, read, and learn. I recently purchased some new powermatic tools. A tablesaw, jointer, and planer. Im not new to woodworking. Its in my blood and Im also a carpenter for a living. Been that way for 10 years working for my dads company. Anyways enough of the introduction. The tools I purchased are in my shop. I got them set up and waxed all the tables and bare metal spots. I came home from vacation to find that condensation has reared its ugly head and has flash rusted all the tables despite being waxed. My shop is uninsulated(Im working on it) and unheated. It gets very wet in there from time to time. What is the best way of getting this rust off? Also I read something about getting shower curtains to place over the machines. How do those work compared to the HTC machine covers from Woodcraft?

[David Kuzdrall]

My shop is just my garage and I can control rust fully just by using two space heaters and old towels to cover the equipment. Just figure out what the highest likely dew point is going to be in your area and shop and set the space heaters to keep the room a few degrees above that number.

as far as cleaning it, I am sure evaporust would work since it is so light.

[Brian Burrows]

Thanks. I'll try it out.

[Jason White]

I've used the HTC covers and they work very well.

That said, heating your shop won't necessarily fix your humidity problem. Warm air gives up it's moisture when it comes into contact with a cold surface, like a cast-iron table top. That's how you get condensation.

You need to control the humidity. Where is the moisture coming from? My guess would be the concrete floor, which you can cover with plastic and insulate. Make sure the roof has gutters and that rain is directed far away from the shop building. Using a dehumidifier also helps.

Hello my name is Brian. I think this may be my first post on here. Ive been a member for awhile but have never posted I think. Just kind of sat back, read, and learn. I recently purchased some new powermatic tools. A tablesaw, jointer, and planer. Im not new to woodworking. Its in my blood and Im also a carpenter for a living. Been that way for 10 years working for my dads company. Anyways enough of the introduction. The tools I purchased are in my shop. I got them set up and waxed all the tables and bare metal spots. I came home from vacation to find that condensation has reared its ugly head and has flash rusted all the tables despite being waxed. My shop is uninsulated(Im working on it) and unheated. It gets very wet in there from time to time. What is the best way of getting this rust off? Also I read something about getting shower curtains to place over the machines. How do those work compared to the HTC machine covers from Woodcraft?

[David Kuzdrall]

I've used the HTC covers and they work very well.

That said, heating your shop won't necessarily fix your humidity problem. Warm air gives up it's moisture when it comes into contact with a cold surface, like a cast-iron table top. That's how you get condensation.

You need to control the humidity. Where is the moisture coming from? My guess would be the concrete floor, which you can cover with plastic and insulate. Make sure the roof has gutters and that rain is directed far away from the shop building. Using a dehumidifier also helps.

if you heat the shop enough then the cast iron will never be cold enough to condense water.

[Charles Coolidge]

Boeshield - Not just for table surfaces, I have been applying this to anything that might rust as I assemble new machines like nuts, bolts, and washers. I soak them in this stuff then blot dry. Other examples, table saw blades, underside of tables. Here's a pic of the underside of my giant bandsaw table treated. Mine was pristine and I wanted to keep it that way. This stuff is a mix of lubricants and waxes, a light coat dries, a heavy coat dries sort of. For table top surfaces I'm still working on that. A heavy coat of Boeshield will certainly protect it say if you are going on vacation but is not suitable for use, while sort of dry wood will not slide on this and it kind of smears if you wipe your hand across it. So I applied a heavy coat, let dry, buffed this off, then applied paste wax and buffed. Yet a drop of sweat created a rust spot. So I'm still looking for a miracle solution for treating table surfaces. Thinking about this problem just now it seems to me what is needed is a base coat to seal out moisture and provide a base to apply the wax onto to make it slippery. I'm thinking clean the table surface with acetone to remove all oil and wax, then seal the table surface with something hard like clear enamel, tung oil, something that dries completely then wax over top of that.

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As for removing rust here's a product I rate a rare 5 stars...Evaporust. The stuff is amazing in more ways than one. First its very good at removing rust, the pics below are from a 1952 radial arm saw I'm rebuilding. The first two are when the solution was fresh, I simply soaked that round plate in this stuff overnight and poof the rust was gone, no rubbing, no scrubbing, just rinse off. One of those sponges with the green pad on one side will brighten the metal but the rust is already evaporated. That second shot is of a casting after a few hours soak in solution that's nearing worn out, the casting was so big I could not submerge it completely and you can see clearly how its working.

There's more, the stuff seems has harmless as hand soap. Its biodegradable, it won't harm steel, aluminum, plastic, paint, or rubber. Its non-toxic, water based, no fumes, no bad odors, can be safely disposed of down drains and sewers, no petroleum's, no solvents, no acids. How it works...it uses a chemical process called chelation to selectively remove rust. Chelation is a process where a large synthetic molecule forms a bond with metals and holds them in a solution. The active ingredient in Evapo-Rust bonds to rust while leaving surrounding materials unharmed.

This radial arm saw had many bare metal parts both steel and cast iron, anything that wasn't painted was pretty must rusted and this Evaporust removed the rust leaving the parts in very good condition. Where rust had eaten into the metal well it removed the rust but no miracle product can restore metal that's no longer there so you will see the cavity. The only parts where this was a problem for me was on some 5/8 inch studs that screwed into the base, they were not rusty anymore but were too far gone so I'm replacing them. For everything else I was quite pleased with the results.

I found out about this product on the vintage machine site, they use it to restore old 1940's rusted out hulks of machines with pretty good results. For large objects like a machine table that can't be soaked they wet towels in this solution, apply to the object and cover in plastic to keep it from drying.

Evapo-Rust is Made in the USA and available at Harbor Freight Tools of all places. A gallon cost me like $22.

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[Brian Burrows]

Thanks for the replies guys. I got some evaporust and some scotch brite pads. I dont think I can afford to heat the shop that much. Its a big Morton building and the heat would escape too easily. The guttters are in bad shape and yes most of the moisture is coming up through the concrete. This spring I will be looking into having the gutters replaced. Its something I could do my self as long as I can get the gutter here. It would have to be 40 some feet long. Maybe once I insulate and drywall the shop in the future I will be able to keep it at a comfortable temperature.

[Lee Schierer]

Boeshield T-9 will protect your table tops between uses in cold weather. After you are done working spray the tops uniformly and don't wipe it off. The next time you are ready to work spray on a bit more Boeshield and wipe it off. Your tops will be shiney and bright.

Where I used to work before I retired we shipped lots of machined cast iron and always had rust problems during winter shipments until we started using Boeshield. It was a bit of a pain to respray and wipe it off, but it was sure easier than removing the rust. We also tried Johnson Paste Wax and it did not protect nearly as well as the T-9 did.

[Jeff Duncan]

Maroon pads are what I use as well. Here's a way to speed things up though. If you have an angle grinder get yourself a sanding kit for it. Cut the maroon pads out to the same size as the sanding discs and mount them to the grinder. With a grinder it'll take minutes per machine and save your arms for more fun things

good luck,
JeffD

[Jason White]

That's not really a practical solution. You have to deal with the moisture problem one way or another.

if you heat the shop enough then the cast iron will never be cold enough to condense water.

[Wayne Stolte]

Just a thought but you might consider sealing the concrete pad.

[Mike Goetzke]

Brian - I'm restoring a 60 year old Uni and the top had surface rust. I starter with WD40 and a razor and then hit it with various roughness Scotch Brite pads on a 1/4 sheet sander. Even on new tools I have treated the surface in a similar manner. Years ago I found this which I don't follow directly but is a great reference :

1) Scrape as much of the sludge as you can off with cardboard from the shipping container or a plastic scraper.
2) Use Simple Green right out of the container and tons of paper towels to get the rest off.
3) Wash off the Simple Green with more paper towels and clear water. Dry off with even more paper towels.
4) Spray the top down liberally with WD40. The WD in WD40 stands for Water Displacing, by the way.
5) Take a finishing sander, like a Porter-Cable 330, and put it on a ScotchBrite green pad. Random Orbital will work, but makes a hell of a mess.
6) Sand the top evenly until you feel like you've "massaged" the WD40 in very well. This also will knock some sharp spots off your top, a good thing.
7) Take even more paper towels, and wipe the top until dry. It will feel slightly oily.
8) Using a quality furniture paste wax (Johnson's, Minwax, Butcher's, whatever is available in your area), wax the top thoroughly and allow to dry.
9) Wipe off the bulk of the excess wax with paper towels.
10) Wax it again.
11) Buff well with paper towels.
12) Last step. Take a piece of wood with straight edges, and rub the surface of the saw in the direction of cut with the wood, as though you were cross-cutting it.
It's a damn sight more steps than "wash off with kerosene", which is what all the manuals say. But, it leaves a top that is seriously ready for work, and won't need to be screwed with every couple months. I rewax my tops every year or two, and they ain't rusty...


Dave Arbuckle

BTW - I'm in a garage shop in the Chicago area. It is shared with my wife's Suburban. I have a gas ventless heater that I set just above freezing when I'm not working. I also have a ceiling fan that I set on low and covers on all tools. I use Boeshield twice a year and paste was every time I put the tool away = no rust.

Mike

[Jim Andrew]

Is your morton building insulated at all? Seems these metal roof buildings sort of cause moisture to condense on the inside when there is a temperature difference between inside and outside. Think I'd be careful about drywalling a ceiling unless you figure out a way to vent your attic space. When metal roofing is installed on a house, they put some sort of a waterproof material under the metal.

[Myk Rian]

Also I read something about getting shower curtains to place over the machines. How do those work compared to the HTC machine covers from Woodcraft?

Shower curtains trap the moisture. The HTC covers breathe. I have several HTC covers.
What ticks me off is they moved production from Michigan to China.