Painting Cabinets - Acrylic Confusion

[Paul Fitzgerald]

We're getting ready to paint our (previously pickled oak) cabinets and newly crafted poplar doors and drawers.

The guys at Sherwin Williams recommended ProClassic Waterbourne over PrepRite Classic Primer. I have no experience with their products, so I accepted their recommendation and told them we'd be back to buy some as soon as we picked the color.

Well... I started reading up on the subject and have become thoroughly confused. Doh!

I see from posts here that I should go with 100% Acrylic, which I what I thought the guys had recommended. But their web site says it's "Acrylic Latex", not "100% Acrylic". Their site says the primer is "Interior Latex Primer" but goes on to say "100% Acrylic".

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro/...orne/index.jsp
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro/...s/holds_gloss/

So... Is that the right stuff?

[Randy Carnley]

I recently renovated the kitchen in the parsonage where we live using the SW Proclassic. Used their primer as well. Turned out great. Sprayed doors and drawer fronts with a 4-stage turbine hvlp system.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I recently renovated the kitchen in the parsonage where we live using the SW Proclassic. Used their primer as well. Turned out great. Sprayed doors and drawer fronts with a 4-stage turbine hvlp system.

I wish I could spray them, but I'm not sure I could convince my wife to spend the money for an HVLP system right now. So we'll be brushing.

Did you happen to do any brushing?

Paul

[Peter Elliott]

Paul,

I don't know the logic to some of the wording all the companies used. A lot of it happens to be more marketing than product components...

Regardless, I spray the same stuff you were recommended. Fact I did a pure white the other day, which to me is the hardest to spray.

2 coats of primer (sand in between and after last coat)
2-3 coats of proclassic
2-3 coats of a poly clear.

ProClassic Waterbourne over PrepRite Classic Primer

I would absolutely recommend shooting a clear over these.

Or buying a clear that is tinted to your color from Jeff Jewitt company.

Couple notes -

Preprite is really good stuff, prob. the best I have ever used that is sold retail.

SW Proclassic is -1 sheen than it says.. So semi gloss is more like satin. at least it is in the lighter tones.

Do you have a compressor? If so, I would highly recommend shooting it... for under $150 you can with a compressor. If you don't, for under $100 you can buy the low end hvlp unit Harbor Freight, Rockler and Woodcraft are selling. Can't say anything about them but a few guys are in another thread.

If you shoot it, thin it by 10% with water... Filtered if you can. But no more than 10%. Not flotrol, it's not a thinner (in case someone at the store recommends it as a thinner)

But do yourself a favor and buy a hvlp gun or low end unit if the $$ is tight. read this thread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=110181

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I would absolutely recommend shooting a clear over these.

Just out of curiosity, why do you recommend a clear coat?

Do you have a compressor? If so, I would highly recommend shooting it... for under $150 you can with a compressor. If you don't, for under $100 you can buy the low end hvlp unit Harbor Freight, Rockler and Woodcraft are selling. Can't say anything about them but a few guys are in another thread.

...

But do yourself a favor and buy a hvlp gun or low end unit if the $$ is tight. read this thread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=110181

I do have a Craftsman 25 Gallon compressor, and spraying is definitely tempting, but I'm not sure kitchen cabinets is a good first spray project for me.

Paul

[Peter Elliott]

protection.... again, I am no paint expert. But just shooting the paint alone in a gloss will give ok protection.. Adding 1 or 2 coats of a clear will add a much longer life.

I did a whole kitchen in satin white, no top coat, not my choice. Even though the primer/paint layers were good. Just adding a top coat would have made it perfect.

Your best option is to buy a tinted product. Target coatings / Jeff Jewitt, Homestead finishing....

You should absolutely shoot if you have that compressor. If you can swing $150, then there are plenty of options. read this:
http://sawsndust.com/r-wagnerhvlp.htm If you end up getting this gun. Buy the extra needle for paint.

Or email Jeff Jewitt like I mentioned before...

There is plenty of info in this thread on painting cabs. Lots of good info!
just search "kitchen".

But I would buy a gun and really not worry about it being the 1st job. Just practice and play with carboard samples and you'll be good to go.

And to answer your question, I think Jim Becker gave a good explanation on latex... It's somewhere in here.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

protection.... again, I am no paint expert. But just shooting the paint alone in a gloss will give ok protection.. Adding 1 or 2 coats of a clear will add a much longer life.

I did a whole kitchen in satin white, no top coat, not my choice. Even though the primer/paint layers were good. Just adding a top coat would have made it perfect.

Gotcha!

You should absolutely shoot if you have that compressor. If you can swing $150, then there are plenty of options. read this:
http://sawsndust.com/r-wagnerhvlp.htm If you end up getting this gun. Buy the extra needle for paint.

Oh man, stop talking me into it! My wife is gonna kill me. LOL

There is plenty of info in this thread on painting cabs. Lots of good info!
just search "kitchen".

But I would buy a gun and really not worry about it being the 1st job. Just practice and play with carboard samples and you'll be good to go.

And to answer your question, I think Jim Becker gave a good explanation on latex... It's somewhere in here.

I think Jim's explanation is actually what got me concerned we weren't buying the right stuff. (Plus the fact that the more I talk to retail folk, the less I actually trust what they say).

We absolutely do not want our cabinets to be "sticky" so I've been steering very clear of anything that says "latex". And since we're just building new doors and drawer fronts, we'll be painting the carcasses in place. We're very reluctant to go with an oil based paint because of the smell.

That's what led us to "100% Acrylic" paint. Seeing talk of "latex" on the label of the ProClassic Waterbourne, in the MSDS, and the sales slick got me concerned.

Jim, you around? Since your post in this thread (http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=109060) recommended "ProClassic Waterbourne", maybe you could shed some light on my confusion.

Thanks everyone!

[Peter Elliott]

I am of the belief, the SW Proclassic in Waterborne, which is what I use is 100% acrylic. Again, you'll find a lot of marketing buzz words come into play when looking at "retail-consumer" products. I learned that a long time ago and it's mentioned in many finishing books, dvds.

Say no to oil base for kitchen cabs.... The smell will never leave the cabinet box.

After you spray your cabinet doors and boxes. I think your wife would say, "that was the best tool you ever bought!"

and you lived happily ever after!

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I am of the belief, the SW Proclassic in Waterborne, which is what I use is 100% acrylic. Again, you'll find a lot of marketing buzz words come into play when looking at "retail-consumer" products. I learned that a long time ago and it's mentioned in many finishing books, dvds.

Say no to oil base for kitchen cabs.... The smell will never leave the cabinet box.

After you spray your cabinet doors and boxes. I think your wife would say, "that was the best tool you ever bought!"

and you lived happily ever after!

Good points Peter.

Thanks for the help.

[Jim Becker]

ProClassic water borne is 100% acrylic. I have no idea why their marketers stick that nasty "latex" word in the collateral, but they do for some reason. One thing, though...unless something has changed, you can't tint it to darker colors. If you need that, Benjamin Moore's Satin Impervo 100% acrylic water borne is a good alternative.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Well that settles it. ProClassic Waterbourne it is.

Thanks Peter and Jim!

[Phil Phelps]

You said in the original post, "previously oak". Are the carcasses oak now? Are you going to put poplar with oak?
If you use a water base paint, you'll have brush strokes galore. Just be prepared for that. For me, I just couldn't put a brush full of acrylic on a new door.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

You said in the original post, "previously oak". Are the carcasses oak now? Are you going to put poplar with oak?
If you use a water base paint, you'll have brush strokes galore. Just be prepared for that. For me, I just couldn't put a brush full of acrylic on a new door.

Phil,

The carcasses, which are staying put, are made from oak plywood and solid oak face frames. The doors and drawer fronts are being tossed. We've already sanded and are almost done filling the pores in the oak carcasses and face frames. And I'm in the process of making the new doors and drawer fronts from solid poplar and BB ply.

Before we paint the real carcasses, doors, and drawer fronts, we're going to do some testing. I have a couple mockup face frames with doors and drawer fronts attached as well as some oak panels. We're going to go through the process of prepping the test pieces, brushing the primer, and brushing the top coat.

If we're not happy with it, I'll probably end up buying the Wagner HVLP conversion gun Peter mentioned (and Jim reviewed on his web site). We'll then go through the testing process again to ensure we get the look we're going for.

I'm more concerned about the open grain of the oak showing through the paint than I am about brush strokes. To me, brush strokes (as long as they're not obnoxious) lend a bit of character to the project. Spraying sometimes makes things look too cold and uninviting. So if we end up spraying, I'll probably tip off the final coat with a brush anyway.

[Bret Jackson]

Haven't actually tried this,but i know a lot of old school painters would put a teaspoon of vanilla into there oil based paint to kill the odor. Supposed to work like a charm

[Michael Pyron]

Phil,



If we're not happy with it, I'll probably end up buying the Wagner HVLP conversion gun Peter mentioned (and Jim reviewed on his web site). We'll then go through the testing process again to ensure we get the look we're going for.

I'm more concerned about the open grain of the oak showing through the paint than I am about brush strokes. To me, brush strokes (as long as they're not obnoxious) lend a bit of character to the project. Spraying sometimes makes things look too cold and uninviting. So if we end up spraying, I'll probably tip off the final coat with a brush anyway.

I doubt you will be happy with the results...the times I have seen people brush acrylic paints they looked terrible to my eyes...if you are worried about the open grain of oak you might think of using a wood filler of some sort as a grain filler...it WILL probably look odd to have the very open pores of oak next to the rather small pores of poplar