Painting Cabinets - Acrylic Confusion

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I doubt you will be happy with the results...the times I have seen people brush acrylic paints they looked terrible to my eyes...if you are worried about the open grain of oak you might think of using a wood filler of some sort as a grain filler...it WILL probably look odd to have the very open pores of oak next to the rather small pores of poplar

We are filling the pores and it looks like it's going to work great. We'll see...

[Phil Phelps]

We are filling the pores and it looks like it's going to work great. We'll see...

When you finish filling the pores, I would use an oil base primer, preferably from Binjamin Moore. Using an enamel roller and china bristle brush, you can lay down a relatively smooth finish. Lightly sand with 300 grit and you'll have a very smooth primed finish ready to accept oil or acrylic. If you can spray the doors, I'd opt for that. Good luck.

[Peter Elliott]

Paul, what are you using as a pore filler? SW?

The prep rite will help too! it's not a filler by any means but 2 coats and it levels great! I use a 300 grit foam sanding block. Works great. Just watch your edges so you don't burn through the paint. You can "roll" the block over the edge fairly easy if you don't pay attention.

Lastly - I am grabbing you by your shoulders, starring you in your eyes.

SPRAY MY SON! Spray!!!!

Heck, send me your address and you can use my gun... just pm it to me!
no joke!

-Peter

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Paul, what are you using as a pore filler? SW?

The prep rite will help too! it's not a filler by any means but 2 coats and it levels great! I use a 300 grit foam sanding block. Works great. Just watch your edges so you don't burn through the paint. You can "roll" the block over the edge fairly easy if you don't pay attention.

Peter,

We tried a number of recommended products including various wood fillers, pore fillers, and even drywall mud. End the end, we decided on Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty. Testing indicated it filled the pores adequately, adhered well so it didn't come out, sanded easily and smoothly, and took primer well. It's also very easy to work with.

Lastly - I am grabbing you by your shoulders, starring you in your eyes.

SPRAY MY SON! Spray!!!!

Heck, send me your address and you can use my gun... just pm it to me!
no joke!

-Peter

I hear ya man! We're going to do some testing to see if we need to go that route. If we do, it'll be a good excuse for me to finally get a sprayer I can also use for other finishing tasks.

Paul

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Well... looks like I'm resurrecting my really old thread...

It's been about a year since we started this project. The painting of the cabinet carcasses and the building of all the doors and drawer fronts has been done for a long time.

I'm not permitted to paint (for lack of a better phrase) and my wife absolutely hates the Sherwin Williams Waterbourne Acrylic (she's never painted with anything but latex).

So... I've decided to buy the Wagner HVLP Conversion Gun that Jim Becker recommends on his web site.

I called Gleem and they said, though it's not recommended per se, the gun will work just fine with the paint as long as I use the #4 projection set, thin the paint with 50% water, strain it, and spray very light coats.

So... long story short...

For those of you who have sprayed Sherwin Williams Waterbourne Acrylic with the Wagner HVLP Conversion Gun, do you also recommend using the #4 projection set, thinning and straining the paint, and spraying very light coats? Or have you found another avenue led to a better end product?

Thanks in advance!

Paul

[Paul Fitzgerald]

After some more thinking I'm wondering if simply using Flotrol will alleviate the problems she's experiencing with brushing.

She says it dries too fast. She's getting rough spots. I think she's working it too much. I'm thinking maybe the flotrol will keep it from skinning so quickly. Maybe that will give her the time to smooth it out.

Thoughts?

Paul

[Jason Roehl]

Paul, having both sprayed and brushed ProClassic waterborne professionally, I can say that it's not the easiest material to use. When applied with skill, it produces excellent results, but it is not forgiving to the novice. The problem with brushing is that if applied too thin, it will set up too quick and leave bad brush marks. It is intended to go on a little thicker than most people are used to applying paint. The downside is that it will run like crazy if you get it too thick, and the sweet spot between the two is fairly narrow. If at all possible, apply it to horizontal surfaces, and don't keep working it--put it on, brush it to where it needs to go, then tip it off and leave it alone with as few strokes as possible. Don't keep working it. It does set to a sandable hard within a few hours, provided the sanding doesn't heat it up and you don't use too much pressure, so runs and sags are fixable in a short time frame.

[Sam Layton]

I brushed the Pro Classic and the Impervo on a window. They were both very hard to brush and looked bad. I am finished brushing them, I will just have to mask good and spray...

Sam

[Phil Phelps]

After some more thinking I'm wondering if simply using Flotrol will alleviate the problems she's experiencing with brushing.

She says it dries too fast. She's getting rough spots. I think she's working it too much. I'm thinking maybe the flotrol will keep it from skinning so quickly. Maybe that will give her the time to smooth it out.

Thoughts?

Paul

Here is a quote,
Phil-Here’s another answer to your question from another one of our experts:
Benjamin Moore & Co, would not recommend using Floetrol in order to thin a product for application reasons.
Paul, your asking a lot from a paint that wasn't designed to be sparyed from a siphon gun, HVLP, or from an electric rig. You just have to water it down too much. I'm not trying to be obstinate or sell my way of painting, but no one has much luck spraying water base paint with out watering it down to oblivion. Paint companies don't recommend it and the results prove it. However, using Satin Impervo, you would have much better results. I've painted many a door casing, window sash, base boards, and crown with no brush strokes. You'd swear it's sprayed. I have no better answer for water base paints.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Here is a quote,
Phil-Here’s another answer to your question from another one of our experts:
Benjamin Moore & Co, would not recommend using Floetrol in order to thin a product for application reasons.
Paul, your asking a lot from a paint that wasn't designed to be sparyed from a siphon gun, HVLP, or from an electric rig. You just have to water it down too much. I'm not trying to be obstinate or sell my way of painting, but no one has much luck spraying water base paint with out watering it down to oblivion. Paint companies don't recommend it and the results prove it. However, using Satin Impervo, you would have much better results. I've painted many a door casing, window sash, base boards, and crown with no brush strokes. You'd swear it's sprayed. I have no better answer for water base paints.

Oops. Maybe I didn't say what I meant very well.

I meant... rather than trying to spray the SW ProClassic, maybe we could use Floetrol to help alleviate the issues my wife is having with brushing.

I don't know that I'm interested in thinning the paint for a brush application. I thought Floetrol was an extender. Can it be used when brushing?

I figured it would give her more time to smooth the paint before it started to skin over. We like the brush strokes... just not the rough spots caused by the paint drying before she got it smooth.

Paul

[Phil Phelps]

Well, maybe it's me who should say oops, Paul. Look, if Jason has some issues with it, I would say the average person will have problems. I've not used that particular product as I shy away from waterbase paints and wood trim. I have used latex enamel. However, Floetrol does work well when brushing latex, acrylic water base paint. There is less drag on the brush and it helps with the brush strokes. You can't doddle around when brushing waterbase paint because it sets up much faster than oil base paints. I would also recommend you pour about an inch of paint in a pale and not use the can. Too many people dip and rake the paint brush against the rim of the can and then apply. This is nuts. Dip, load, the brush in the paint, lightly touch the side of the pail and then on to the intended surface. When you have covered a small area, brush in one direction to eleminate brush strokes.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Thanks for the tips everyone. We're going to give floetrol a try with brushing. Hopefully it will help with the problems she's encountering.

[chris dub]

I'm doing the same project now, painting kitchen cabinets with Pro Classic. And it sure is unforgiving stuff. I found spraying with a Capspray (i.e. Wagner) HVLP and a #5 set worked well where I could spray. Thinned the material 5-10%, per the recommendation of the SW rep. On the areas I couldn’t spray, using a 4" foam roller came out better than brushing for me. Using Floetrol and a foam roller may have been even better. Admittedly brushing has never yielded the results that I wanted.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

I'm doing the same project now, painting kitchen cabinets with Pro Classic. And it sure is unforgiving stuff. I found spraying with a Capspray (i.e. Wagner) HVLP and a #5 set worked well where I could spray. Thinned the material 5-10%, per the recommendation of the SW rep. On the areas I couldn’t spray, using a 4" foam roller came out better than brushing for me. Using Floetrol and a foam roller may have been even better. Admittedly brushing has never yielded the results that I wanted.

Ya know... we tried the 4" foam roller (which she liked a heck-of-a lot better than brushing), but we could tell it was rolled by the "bump" pattern it left.

I suppose we ought to try it again with the floetrol. I betcha it would have a bit more time to settle in and smooth out before it starts to set up.

[Rob Hermann]

I Sprayed some kitchen cabinets with the SW acrylic gloss white. I used the Rockler gun and for a first spray project was very pleased. I didn't thin it as much as suggested. I thinned about 10% and added a lot of floetrol. Darn near a full bottle to the gallon. I had that mix left and I brushed all the new trim I put here at the house. I AM NO PAINTER!! But, I was amazed at how beautifully they turned out with almost no brush marks anywhere and a great gloss. I would certainly recommend trying the flotrol myself. Jason above gives excellent advice for brushing it too.