Arm-R-Seal wipe on Low Angle view Not so good

[Steven Hans]

Thanks Corey,
I also heard that if you don't want to finish the finish, to use a gel wipe-on wipe-off. I will try the gel satin by general's to see if that can even the sheen.

I did redo my kitchen table using mixol dye and shellac doing a french polish method. I wanted a satin sheen so I used gray synthetic steel wool and a piece of wood and went over the entire surface. Shellac was so nice to rub out and didn't take much effort.

[Prashun Patel]

Nice looking table. Shellac on a kitchen table, though? How's it holding up?

[Steven Hans]

It is not bad actually. Resists scratches pretty well and we use place mats now. One time though, I lit a candle and a hot amber, from a match head, landed on the table. I used a 2# cut and a small brush to build up the boo-boo. I waited three days and then used a razor with a burr (kind of like a scraper) and leveled the mark. A little alcohol and a final rub down with gray steel wool and it was done.

Changing subjects, John mentioned that perhaps I should thin out the varnish. I just got done watching a wood whisper video where he says that he doesn't like spraying polyurethane because it dries so slow. He says if he must spray, the final spray coat would be a 75% naptha to 25% poly mix. He prefers finishes that dry fast like lacquer, shellac, or water based stuff.

For the wipe on board on the right, I thought that I could use a gel topcoat. Following the instructions it says apply a liberal amount with clean rag and then wipe off evenly along the grain leaving enough for a "wet look". However, I watched a wood craft video of the product and the guy changes rags to wipe off and he uses the words buff out. I was almost treating this stuff like the wipe-on top coat. As a result I have wipe marks. I think I will do a light sand and hit it with a top coat of the Arm-R-Seal before trying this again. The nice thing about all this though is the coats are very think so I don't have to worry about having a plastic looking surface.

[Steven Hans]

I purchased the Woodwhisper mp4 on his go-to-finish. He explained how you create a proper pad by layering 2-3 sheets of t-shirt squares and then folding over in thirds. Finally you fold the whole thing over so that the edge has no creases and can distribute the force from your fingers evenly as you drag the pad. However, I had another idea! How about placing a credit card (or gift card) in the pad so that the pressure is even and maybe no streaks. So after folding in thirds, you then place the card and fold the t-shirt bundle over the card. I can't try it tonight, but tomorrow I will give it a go.

I tried the satin gel stuff and didn't really care for it. I need to spend more time to get the technique done I guess. It is suppose to be fool proof, but I am thinking that there is no fool proof finish .

What is funny is that I will probably end up rubbing everything out with 0000 steel wool in a couple weeks. However, if I can perfect the wipe on without rubbing that will be something nice.

[Steven Hans]

I think I understand what Shawn means when he has issues with the wipe-on Satin. I don't like the spray either. I am going to wipe that on and then wait 3 weeks and try rubbing out the finish. If all else fails --I bought SOY GEL. And, after 2nd quarter, if I have any money and the wife lets me. I will get a HVLP gun with the 3M cup system. I have a nice air compressor. I was thinking about getting the porter cable gun. The rest of the nightstand is stunning though. Nice thing about the top is that it is screwed on so I can work on that some other time, if I am not happy with it. The rest of the nightstand looks good IMHO.

[Steven Hans]

I had some experience in rubbing through poly into the next layer requiring a new top coat. In this case with the maple tops, using Arm-R-Seal, has anyone rubbed successfully with only steel wool only? With such thin coats, there would be a major problem trying to flatten with sand paper causing the previous finish layer to telegraph. If the top is flat enough, is it possible to only use steel wool to get a satin sheen that is pleasing to the eye? I have Jeff Jewitt's books on finishing and it seems like he uses sand paper for both rubbing thick and thin top coats before moving to the steel wool.

Another note: www.homesteadfinishing.com is coming up with account suspended. Wasn't sure if others are experiencing this.

[Tony Bilello]

Spray is almost always better than wipe on. You will just have to work on your technique. I am not familiar with Arm-A-Seal but I'm sure it's not any different than any other urethane as far as spraying goes. It appears the rough surface is partly due to it being too thick and not flowing out, just add a little thinner and it will atomize better.
I also am not familiar with your spray equipment. If you are using a conventional spray set, 20 PSI is way too low. For urethanes I use about 45 to 50 PSI.
Maybe I could talk you into lacquer sometime. It is much easier to spray than urethane and way way faster drying.

[Steven Hans]

Hi Tony,
You don't have to twist my arm too much. I am convinced that spraying is the way to go. However for the immediate future, I went ahead and smoothed the top and now both have a carefully wiped on finish. I will wait three weeks (May 24th) and then even the sheen. I went the library and got Jeff Jewitt's hand finishing book. He addresses my concerns about "flatting" a wipe on poly top where you are dealing with a thin finish layer. I honestly don't care if it is flat as long as I can trick the eye to think it is! If you look at the table from a 0 degree angle you can see imprecations. However, I really don't plan on looking at the top that closely. I have a nice little spray booth that I built but it is only for water based finishes. Therefore, when I get my HVLP gun, I will only do water based finishes. I have did a search in this forum for explosion fan and it came up with all sorts of information. Ultimately, it is good to err on the side of caution. So if you have a replacement for laquer that is water based, I am seriously going to consider it. Who knows, I may redo the tops with a spray on finish someday?

[Tony Bilello]

Spraying is relatively simple. Much easier to do than to explain. Maybe someone on here that sprays lives near you or you work with someone that sprays. Once you see it live and up close, you will know what you are looking for in the way of 'how wet'. Then its a matter of very little practice. One of the keys to successful spraying is to be relaxed. That way your body motion is smooth.
When I used to teach woodworking, woodturning , etc. I would always tell students to take a deep breath, relax and make like you have done this before. Dont try to do it, just do it.

Good luck to you in whichever way you go.

BTW, nice looking nightstands, and when you show them off, do not point to the finish and apologize. The 'uninitiated' probably wont even know that anything is not perfect.

[Steven Hans]

Well I waited 1 month after applying the urethane to glue and clamp and smooth my table top. It's nerve racking being careful not to mess up the nice finish while muscling everything together with clamps. However, the top came out nice. I purchased some micromesh sanding pads and used the 2400, 3200, and 3600 with a light hand and dry on the top. I didn't scratch the top and it feels so smooth, very pleasing. It certainly helped that I created a paint booth for the final wipe on coat to minimize lint and dust. I have some final pictures of the first nightstand. I still have to glue up the other one. Finally, I will create the drawers. The drawer front will be cherry with a satin brushed metal knob and the inside will be maple with a ply-birch bottom. I will apply shellac to the inside of the drawer and do the wipe on urethane to the cherry front. I will be sure to show those pictures too when I finish! I am excited to have almost completed my first furniture build. My wife really likes them and they are heavy! Oh yeah, I got in trouble for my name. My name is Steve not Dirk

[Steve Benson]

I dont know if this helps you, but i have followed David Marks in that he uses like 5-6 coats of Gloss Arm R Seal and then like 2 coats of satin or whatever you need to get the proper matte finish.

When i did our kitchen cabinets i shellac'd to seal and fill pores of walnut and then used 5 gloss coats and 2 satin coats and came out beautiful.

For David Marks see here

When i apply the Arm R Seal i cut up a like 1ft x 1ft of new tshirt. I literally flood the surface with Arm R Seal, and let it sit for a minute or 2. The i Wipe with the grain and wring out the extra finish in a secondary container. I do this until smoothly coated. I reuse the rag and store it in that secondary container. Sometimes i dont get it dry enough and i use another piece of tshirt.

[Steven Hans]

That is an interesting method. This technique sounds similar to using a gel wipe on.

[Steven Hans]

I finished the second nightstand! Now I just need to build the drawers for both. I love it when the iridescence is highlighted from the flash of the camera.