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Thread: French Cleat specifications

  1. #1
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    French Cleat specifications

    I have read a lot in the magazines and on the forums about the use of French cleats.
    I've decided to use them in my shop to better store hand and power tools.
    The first unit I built was a power tool holder built of two pieces of 3/4" x 12" x 8' plywood with cubbyholes for cord storage.
    I used 1" x 4" stock (which I had seen used in several magazine and book articles) for the cleats. This was evidently under-engineering because the empty unit would not stay on the wall.
    Is there a rule of thumb as to when to go to a larger (such as 2 x 4 or 2 x 6) stock?
    Also, what would be my best remedy for my present situation? I can change the wall cleats since they are screwed to the wall studs but the cleat fastened to the cabinet is already glued and screwed in place.

  2. #2
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    French Cleat

    Larry,
    I've used cleats to hold things to the wall and never had trouble. There are a few basics to remember. Cut the cleats from one piece of wood and then it doesn't matter how accurate the angle is since each piece will be a perfect match to the other. Be sure you mount the cleat to the cabinet with the longer edge out since you want the weight of the object to pull it closer to the wall. Whatever thickness you make the cleat, you need to add the same amount of spacer (or additional nailer) to the bottom so the object remains parallel to the mounting surface.
    Jim
    Growing older is mandatory.
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  3. #3
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    Not sure I understand.

    Is what you made just a piece of plywood 12" wide, 8' tall with a cleat @ the top? If so, that's not an optimum design for a cleat mount. I could foresee a lot of potential for lateral movement. With enough weight on it though, it shouldn't lift up. How is it not staying on the wall?

  4. #4
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    I was hanging shop cabinets from French cleats before I knew they existed. Most of the time I used 1"X6" stock, cut that in half at what ever angle I set the blade at, lined up the halves and fastened one on the wall and the other on the cabinet. I only used one cleat and fastened a solid 1"X3" piece near the bottom of the cabinet to align the cabinet back with the wall. Never had a problem. The cabinets were close to 3'x3'x11" and were loaded down with some heavy stuff.
    David B

  5. #5
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    French Cleat

    I could have done a better job of describing the cabinet I built. Here's a photo. It weighs about 45 lbs without the tools.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry cronkite View Post
    I could have done a better job of describing the cabinet I built. Here's a photo. It weighs about 45 lbs without the tools.
    Ah, there is your problem. Your fixture is deeper (front to back) than it is tall. As you discovered, your cleat will not hold given this dimensional relationship.

    For example, this clamp rack fixture is proportioned so that our friend, old Mr. Gravity, works for us in forcing the cleat faces together. If the back were shorter, the downward force would be too far forward and would pull the top part of the cleat out of the wall mounted portion as you have experienced.

    You could just add a back panel to your fixture that is about 1.5 times as tall as the fixture is deep. Make sense? Also, for the clamp racks since they can be bumped while pulling out the last clamp, I added pins made from cut off double headed nails. The pins go in at a slightly downward angle and stick out just below the wall mounted part of the cleat.

    Your large unit once properly backed would not need the pins but, you may want to use them for piece of mind. The pin doesn't have to be tight; it just has to keep the fixture from rising during rough handling.

    Although it changes with what I am doing at the time (that's the whole point) here is a shot of one wall about a year ago.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 05-08-2009 at 2:56 AM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    Ah, there is your problem. Your fixture is deeper (front to back) than it is tall. As you discovered, your cleat will not hold given this dimensional relationship.

    For example, this clamp rack fixture is proportioned so that our friend, old Mr. Gravity, works for us in forcing the cleat faces together. If the back were shorter, the downward force would be too far forward and would pull the top part of the cleat out of the wall mounted portion as you have experienced.

    You could just add a back panel to your fixture that is about 1.5 times as tall as the fixture is deep. Make sense? Also, for the clamp racks since they can be bumped while pulling out the last clamp, I added pins made from cut off double headed nails. The pins go in at a slightly downward angle and stick out just below the wall mounted part of the cleat.

    Your large unit once properly backed would not need the pins but, you may want to use them for piece of mind. The pin doesn't have to be tight; it just has to keep the fixture from rising during rough handling.

    Although it changes with what I am doing at the time (that's the whole point) here is a shot of one wall about a year ago.
    OK Glenn that makes sense. With all the reading I have been doing that is the first time I have seen anything about the dimension of a back panel.
    Is this 1.5 figure a constant or does it vary with other dimensions (weight, etc)?
    Since my cabinet projects 12" from the wall then the added panel should be 18" tall (extending down from the top of he cabinet), or should it be 18" plus the height of the cabinet (6")?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by larry cronkite View Post
    Is this 1.5 figure a constant or does it vary with other dimensions (weight, etc)?
    That was actually "shot from the hip". I've found that as long as the angle that I am showing here in red (bottom of front weight point to lowest wall contact point) is less than 45* (assume straight up is zero), you should be OK. As you have found the farther you get away from 90* the more grip gravity will help you with.

    Since your cubbies do not have hanging things (like my clamp handles), you could take advantage of that space with a pegboard panel or shelf as I have shown here in this very quick and dirty drawing.

    Untitled-1-copy.jpg

    Here's an idea of how the "keeper" pin works. They just pull out when you want to move the fixture. Since all cleats are of the same height, the pins work anywhere around the shop.

    Untitled-1.jpg

    P.s. I made a couple extra lengths of cleats while I was making the ones I needed right away. That way as I have added to the system, I just pull the material down from the rack, cut to length, attach and move along.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 05-08-2009 at 1:52 PM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    That was actually "shot from the hip". I've found that as long as the angle that I am showing here in red (bottom of front weight point to lowest wall contact point) is less than 45* (assume straight up is zero), you should be OK. As you have found the farther you get away from 90* the more grip gravity will help you with.

    Since your cubbies do not have hanging things (like my clamp handles), you could take advantage of that space with a pegboard panel or shelf as I have shown here in this very quick and dirty drawing.

    Untitled-1-copy.jpg

    Here's an idea of how the "keeper" pin works. they just pull out when you want to move the fixture. since all cleats are of the same height, the pins work anywhere around the shop.

    Untitled-1.jpg
    Glenn

    Thank you very much. This clarifying information should be included in every discussion of French cleats.

  10. #10
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    I hung some wall cabinets off french cleats once. I screwed the cleat on the cabinet to the 3/4" top board. (pine). I came in the shop one day to find my stuff all over the floor. The top board had split. I didn't realize how much weight I had in the cabinet. I now make my cabinets with 1/2 backs and screw them to the studs.
    The Plane Anarchist

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Leigh Betsch View Post
    I hung some wall cabinets off french cleats once. I screwed the cleat on the cabinet to the 3/4" top board. (pine). I came in the shop one day to find my stuff all over the floor. The top board had split. I didn't realize how much weight I had in the cabinet. I now make my cabinets with 1/2 backs and screw them to the studs.

    It's funny you mention the cabinets falling, because that happened to a friend of mine years ago but it was caused by using sheetrock screws, after that happened I read that sheet rock screws were not designed for sheer strenth and the should never be used to hol anything heavy up. I immediately changed out all the screws that were holding my kitchen cabinets up. Lol.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Coull View Post
    It's funny you mention the cabinets falling, because that happened to a friend of mine years ago but it was caused by using sheetrock screws, after that happened I read that sheet rock screws were not designed for sheer strenth and the should never be used to hol anything heavy up. I immediately changed out all the screws that were holding my kitchen cabinets up. Lol.
    Edge screwing to 3/4" pine is not going to hold much either apparently. A combination of both could yield a perfect storm .
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

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