Rob Cosman Dovetail Saw - Sweeeet!!!

[John Keeton]

I just posted in my project thread a short review of the Cosman saw as it relates to my efforts at curly maple dovetails. But, I thought I would post here some pics, and a link to the other thread. Rick Erickson has already “outed” Rob’s new dovetail saw in his classified post selling his LN saw. Apologies to Rick as well, as I don't want to steal his thunder. Rick just finished a class with Rob in Atlanta, and bought one of Rob's saws there. Hopefully, he will post a thread about all of that and give his comments on this saw.

The heavy handle, and the additional weight of the brass spine on this saw gave it perfect balance. My hands are small, and I was surprised to find that the grip felt like the saw was custom made for my hand. I suspect it would be as comfortable to one with larger hands, too. The fit and finish was beautiful. While some may not care for the non-traditional, solid surface type handle, I think the handle helps make this saw the uniquely successful tool that it is.

The leading couple of inches of the blade are 22 tpi. The remainder is 15 tpi. Starting a cut with this saw is effortless, and the cut is fast and clean. I had to get used to the speed of the cut, as I had a tendency to go over the line the first few times.

The saw is pricey – but the quality in production, and design that Rob put into this saw easily supports the price. The wonderfully made walnut and aspen? box the saw arrived in was icing on the cake. Rob tunes each saw individually, and the sawdust was still on the blade when I took it out of the box.

And, this was the result of a beginner neander using the new saw on curly maple and walnut dovetails. The stock in this set is 3" wide. Quite a difference from my previous attempt. Starting the cut in the maple was no sweat with this saw!

[Ken Higginbotham]

Wow... Looks like the joint was molded together like plastic. How longer would you say it takes to do a joint of that caliber?

[David Keller NC]

Interesting handle. I'd had a similar idea a while back that I never executed - making an infill plane with a granite or marble infill. I suspect such a plane would weigh in at around 13 lbs. in a smoother size, and might be useful for planing extremely hard woods like rosewood.

Never thought about applying such an idea to an artificial stone/composite material to another tool, looks like I wasn't the only one that thought of something along those lines.

One thing's for sure - if that is an artificial stone tote, there certainly won't be any "custom shaping" going on out there!

[Danny Thompson]

"The saw is pricey . . ." -- How pricey?

" . . . non-traditional solid surface type handle. . . " Is that Corian?

[John Keeton]

Ken, I did this dovetail this morning before heading off to the office. I didn't time it, but would guess it took about 20 minutes start to finish, perhaps a little more. I am not real fast at this!

Danny, my understanding is that the price is in the $250 range (US$), plus shipping. Honestly, I gave Rob my credit card # and didn't ask! I have spoken with him several times, and he has my trust. It is not Corian, but a similar, but superior product. I was told the name, but it has escaped me.

David, while I think this product could be shaped, it won't be done with rasps and sandpaper!!

[Rick Erickson]

The phone books are here! The phone books are here! Sorry, I couldn't resist the Steve Martin reference. That's how I felt when I got mine.

What's the big deal - it is only a saw (and an expensive one at that)? As soon as you get your hands on it you will understand. People will drop a ton of money on a Lie-Neilsen hand plane (and rightfully so) but they baulk at a saw that costs $250. Why? If you do any hand-cut dovetail work you will use the saw more than you will use the plane. After using mine during a recent class I would have paid more. I love my LN 5 1/2 that I paid $375 for and it was used for about 1/2 hours of total working time. My saw, on the other hand was used for about 2 hours of dovetail cutting. It was a very pleasurable 2 hours.

There are a lot of you out there that have the skill to pick up any saw and cut a straight and plum line. I'm not that skilled. I don't get enough shop time to build the required muscle memory to do that so I need every advantage I can get. When I bought the LN saw my cut quality increased significantly. When I bought the Cosman saw my cut quality went to a whole new level. It is extremely comfortable in the hand. But I think the biggest thing that sets it apart from other brands is the weight. Because of the weight you aren't forcing the cut at all. Simply set it on the wood with a very light grip and let'r ride. The 22 tpi at the tip does a masterful job at starting the cut (something that is difficult for beginners). Once your cut has started it continues at blinding speed (almost too fast if you are use to other saws). It took me several practice cuts to learn to slow it down - which is a good thing for me because I'm always in a rush. Now I have no issue with stopping right on my line.

BTW: The material isn't Corian - that is too brittle of a material. I don't recall the material - I'm sure it will be described in its entirety on Rob's site when the saw is readily available (which I believe will be in a few days). Be patient though. He is involved in every saw that leaves his shop so you can imagine the time required for that.

[Wilbur Pan]

Hi John,

Nice looking saw with an, um, interesting handle. You mentioned that the handle makes this saw uniquely successful. Can you elaborate? Is there some reason a wooden handle couldn't have been used? I think you are talking about the balance of the saw, but I don't want to put words into your mouth.

Also, are the teeth filed rip or crosscut? I would guess rip, but it's hard to tell from the photo. I know that if the blade is thin enough and the tpi is fine enough, the differences between rip and crosscut tend to go away.

[Sean Hughto]

What do I know, but I've read elsewhere that shaping the handle is the really time consuming (read money losing) part of making fine woodworking handsaws. If one could figure our a CNC machine or way to cast/mold a handle, one could make good saws more economically. I'm guessing that this plastic handle may be an effort along those lines.

[Mark Maleski]

I first learned of the saw when I saw that Rob had posted a demo on Youtube. I hadn't seen the price - yow! - and had assumed it'd be at or below the LN price. Wonder how much of the price is driven by the box. I find that I never keep my tools in the box they come in, even when the box is nice, so that'd be a deal breaker for me. But I'm completely content (i.e., able to cut accurately) with my current dovetail saw so wouldn't be actively interested no matter the price. I *am* curious about the benefits (going off of memory):
- progressive pitch...seems like a no-brainer improvement, but could this be a crutch? What happens when you use/borrow someone else's saw?
- heavier brass back...pros/cons?
- thicker handle...seems like a personal preference. Having tried no other saws I can't say what I prefer.

Congrats to those of you who are enjoying your new saw!

Mark

[Mark Maleski]

Also, are the teeth filed rip or crosscut? I would guess rip, but it's hard to tell from the photo.

Rob's dovetail methodology is predicated on use of a rip saw. I can't imagine his personal line of dovetail saws would be anything else.

[John Keeton]

In the broad sense of the word, I guess one could consider the handle "plastic." But, it has considerable mass, and that is what provides the balance, along with the substantial back spine.

Wilbur, as Mark says, I am sure from the way this cuts that it is rip. The entire feel of the saw is extremely comfortable, and works! And, as stated, it is obvious that some are very content with what they have.

I think this saw is unique, and offers something for that person that may need that uniqueness, and can afford it. It is clearly not for everyone. I suspect Rob will sell more than he can supply.

[Wilbur Pan]

I *am* curious about the benefits (going off of memory):
- progressive pitch...seems like a no-brainer improvement, but could this be a crutch? What happens when you use/borrow someone else's saw?

I'm not sure what you mean by "crutch", but it is a straightforward way of making the saw cut faster once you get going.

Progressive pitch saws have actually been around for a long time. Traditionally, if a Japanese saw has rip teeth, such as the rip side of a ryoba, they are also usually progressive pitch, with the teeth at one end of the saw being a finer tpi than at the other end.

[Rick Erickson]

Wilbur - the reason wood isn't used (apart from uniqueness) is what Sean said. Because of the complex grain direction you get from the handle of a saw like this you can't CNC it. There is considerable waste in trying to make these handles because of the difficulty in shaping the wood. I have the 'bone' version of the saw and the handle feels very comfortable in my hand. It has the finger slots in it that help you consistently dock it in your hand so over time you can reproduce the same grip and thus cutting stroke. The material isn't 'plastic' although I can't remember what it is.

It is a rip saw. It doesn't make sense to use a cross-cut saw for dovetail work. The only cross-cutting you are doing is on the two shoulders on the tail board - which a rip saw can manage at that scale.

Just to clarify this isn't a progressive pitch saw. It is a saw with 2 different tpi settings. The first few inches are at 22 tpi (strictly to help start the cut). The remaining teeth are at 15 tpi. A progressive pitch saw varies the tpi along the entire length of the saw. I personally don't see the value in that. Once the saw is cutting (and the kerf has been defined) why do you need variable tpi?

Also, the set of the teeth are at 2-thou. I believe LNs are at 3-thou (from what I remember - I could be wrong). This produces an unbelievably fine kerf.

[Mac Houtz]

my honest first thought when I saw the picture was "I don't know how much it is, but I guarantee its more than I am willing to pay for a saw with a plastic handle."

I have seen Rob's videos, and his skills and tools are beyond reproach. I have two dovetail saws, a 49.00 dozuki, and a Lie-Nielsen. I will admit to lusting after the Grammercy and the Adria. I will also freely admit that were Rob's new saw fitted with a beautiful wooden handle, I would be lusting after it as well. It sounds petty to say it that way, but its true. If it were a cost cutting measure to make a great saw affordable to the masses, i.e. the new veritas dovetail saw, then I could see it making sense. I am sure this saw is a stellar performer, and I am sure there are a lot of guys who are going to be very happy using it. I prefer my shotguns to have wooden butt and forestocks too...go figure.

[David Gendron]

So the saw cut dovetails on it's own... where is the hokey tape on the Handle... Whe name of Roy Underhill Saint Roy, should we rename Rob Cosman "God" ??
Does he actualy make the saw or some one make it for him? this guy seem so busy with all his books, dvd's and show that I wounder where does he find time to design and produce the "perfect" saw?

Any how that saw look realy good, Ilike the handel! As for the tpi set up, on a short saw it's useless, in my opinion, the blade is so short, that you end up "loosing" 2" of valuable saw plate and since when hand sawing one should use the intire lenght of the blade as much as possible then I think it's on a "crutch",
the saw look good and I'm sur it will sell realy well since every thing Rob put on the market, sells like ot cake... He would put a DVD on how to build the perfect bird house, and people would buy it!! So god is back on earth!!
Amen!
David