need a answer to the use of armor all

[Dale Davies]

I need to know the proper way to use armor all on pure black marble. I have read lots about using it here on the forum both for it and against. But one question that never really got answered is the one "how do you apply it. The first time i used it on marble i cleaned the marble with windex made sure it was dry then applied the armor all leaving it a bit moist on top and lasered it. In the places where the laser never touched and left it moist was next to impossible to remove without getting it on the lasered parts and when you did ....it's back to being dark again. I tried it by spraying it on and wiping it dry but that did'nt work. Is it that the only time you can use armor all is when the "WHOLE 100%" of the marble plaque is being lasered and leaving it on wet to laser? To me there should only be one answer to this and that it works to help whiten your picture or it doesn't and shouldn't matter what type/brand of c02 laser you have...or am i totally in left field with this. Please let me know if you can, and I thank-you for your time

[Rodne Gold]

The way a laser acts on marble is to leach the colourant from the marble , IE it doesnt actually "engrave" it unlike some granite. Marble itself is porous and the only possible reason for using anything on it is to seal it prior to lets say colour filling , where one would "overpower" the marble and get some depth in the engraving.
We generally use silver rub n buff type stuff to "brighten and whiten" dark stone that has been actually engraved and not just colour leached.
The possible reason you arent getting a nice white on your marble is that you are using too much power and or going to slow and are overpowering it.

[Keith Outten]

Dale,

The procedure for using Armor All is simple, just wipe it on the entire surface of your marble tile or plaque then wipe off the excess the same way you would use it on the dashboard of your car. Then you laser engrave your photo, text or graphics and that's all there is to it. Any laser engraver will work, you shouldn't have to adjust the speed and power settings that you normally use without Amour All. The result is a pure white engraving rather than the traditional dirty white.

Remember that marble is stone and stone is porous so make sure you allow plenty of time for the Windex to evaporate before applying Amour All.
.

[Tim Bateson]

In the places where the laser never touched and left it moist was next to impossible to remove without getting it on the lasered parts and when you did ....it's back to being dark again.

You are correct, Any Armour All/sealant applied after engraving will tend to re-shine the engraved areas. Not polish, but darken it enough to loose a good image. I use Amour All wipes the day before I laser & let it sit for a few hours or over night before lightly buffing it. Most times I apply it when-ever I get a shipment & buff a day or two later. I'll lightly rebuff prior to engraving. This is especially true for stone sealers that you need to let dry thoroughly.

[Dale Davies]

thanks Rodne,Keith and Tim for your replies.
Still have a couple questions
Rodne...if i'm ready your response correctly you are saying that armor all doesn't work. I read on here somewhere (and now i can't find it ) that pure black marble is not really marble at all and one way to check this out is to place a little acid on it. If it is "marble" then the acid will etch it and if it doesn't...it's not real marble. And another fact stated was that real marble will engrave white whereas the other stuff will engrave a off white. The marble i have engraves off white. I would have checked it out but i'm all out of acid...darn it
Keith... it sounds like you spray it on and wipe it off how do you clean off any of the residue left behind with out getting any on the engraved parts. Because of the silicone in armor all it's like trying to clean up oil on water. Even the slightess amount left shows up like a sore thumb
Tim...i applied it before it was lasered
My laser is a epiolog mini..45w and the power 30 and speed is 80...are these settings in the ball park. Thanks again guys your responses mean the world to me. I am that old dog your trying to teach a new trick to...have a good one

[Rodne Gold]

Well marble is an aggragate stone containing all sorts of organics , so no 2 marbles are alike , you need to find a stone supplier whose marble works well for you.
If its not real marble its then a resin or a synthetic but wont feel as dense or as cold as real stone.
I don't say armor all wont work , I don't use it , however we do use stone sealer on marble and granite when we intend to colour fill it so that the polished unengraved surface doesnt stain.

[Keith Outten]

Dale,

Spray or wipe on Amour All before you engrave and wipe off the excess, never after you engrave.
It works and it works well, I am the one who started using Armour All originally.
.

[Bill Cunningham]

The problem I have found with using Armour All, is it's a penetrant. And being a penetrant it will seek out places to penetrate. If there is a invisible fault line in your 'real' marble, the Armour All will find it, soak into it, and forever leave a mark that would have never been visible had you not used the Armour All. I think the main reason for using it at all, is by wiping it on, the black looks blacker, so the white of the etched marble looks whiter in contrast. And yes, the test for real Marble is acid. Acid has no effect on polished Granite but will ruin marble. I have a piece of black with a nice hand print from someone that enjoyed a orange for lunch.. It will never come off.. Marble should always be sealed with a good stone sealer before doing 'anything' to it.. Google marble stone sealer.. I've had good luck with the Home Depot stuff, but I know there's better out there

[Dale Davies]

Thanks Bill....and everyone else...what effect do you get after placing the stone sealer on it. Does that make your lasering brighter or does it do nothing to it. What about my settings p=30 and s=80 on a epilog mini 45w. Is that on/in the ballpark??. Is there more than 1 kind of black marble in our "engravers world". I know theres tons of differant kinds of marble out there, but lets say the marble one can buy from our laser supply stores, and if there are more than one kind...is there a way of telling them apart. I have orders to do and it's getting a little expensive trying out differant ways (marble is pretty cheap...it's the shipping cost). Thanks again...

[Belinda Barfield]

Dale,

Stone sealer does nothing but seal the stone. Stones which have been resin impregnated will have a lighter edge when ground and polished. Typically tile is not resin impregnated; however, many times it is dyed. There is a product available for edge treatment to darken the edge to match the polished surface of the stone. If used on the polished surface it will darken the surface as well. Either of the companies listed below is a good source for stone care products used by the pros. The product I recommend for darkening is Tenax Ager. Be aware though that this product will darken any hairline fissures as well. Be wary of sealers that are "color enhancing" as they are usually wax based. Trust me on this one, it takes a LONG time to remove this type of sealer from a polished surface (if you can ever fully remove it).

www.braxtonbragg.com
www.granquartz.com

[Bill Cunningham]

Thanks Bill....and everyone else...what effect do you get after placing the stone sealer on it. Does that make your lasering brighter or does it do nothing to it. What about my settings p=30 and s=80 on a epilog mini 45w. Is that on/in the ballpark??. Is there more than 1 kind of black marble in our "engravers world". I know theres tons of differant kinds of marble out there, but lets say the marble one can buy from our laser supply stores, and if there are more than one kind...is there a way of telling them apart. I have orders to do and it's getting a little expensive trying out differant ways (marble is pretty cheap...it's the shipping cost). Thanks again...

If your using power 30 and speed 80 your probably not doing marble..Reverse those figures and thats closer only I use 100 power and speed 25 - 30, and you don't even need photograv for marble (you do for granite) marble will etch nicely with just a plain halftone, or the photo setting on your epilog driver you can even go over it twice to brighten it up, (real marble is very forgiving).. If you want to practice on cheap marble, H.D. sells brown empidor lite (sp?), that turns a nice white when struck with the laser.. A sample of that marble is below. This was done about 5 years ago, no photograv, even went over it twice to make it whiter.. Where stone sealer comes in handy, is when your doing granite, and have to whiten it.. (Marble needs no whitening) the sealler seals all the little tiny holes and fisures that you can't see with the naked eye, but the whitener ( white ink or titanium white oil paint) will find them and sometimes it makes the surface look like a haze you can't get rid of..

[Tim Bateson]

Tim...i applied it before it was lasered
My laser is a epiolog mini..45w and the power 30 and speed is 80...are these settings in the ball park. Thanks again guys your responses mean the world to me. I am that old dog your trying to teach a new trick to...have a good one

That's close to what I use for LaserSketch Marble - Not good stuff at all - likely not real marble (my 2 cents). It's very soft and does not laser white. It works for plaques, but not well for photographs.

For real marble I use 15 speed & 100 power
Granite I use 100 speed & 33 power

I never use PhotoGrav anymore.

[Mike Null]

Bill
That's a nice font you used. What's the name of it?

[Dan Hintz]

even went over it twice to make it whiter..

Nice to know I'm not the only one doing that. I always read here that marble etches a true white, but mine always comes out a very light gray with only a single pass, but a second brightens it up quite a bit.

[Mike Chance in Iowa]

That's a nice font you used. What's the name of it?

Black Chancery