Fire Safety

[Thomas Syrotchen]

Mark,
First, thanks for the reminder, I know I've been a little relaxed on mounting my extinguisers, probably somthing I've ignored over the last month.
As others have pointed out, there are a variety of user types on this forum and with each type carries various risks. However, in all parts of our life we trade risk for cost. I get in my car and drive to work every day knowing its the largest risk I will take every day, I've chosen to forgo safer means like walking (30 miles would be a little time consuming as well) and accept the risk. Most of our homeshops are the same way, at some point we have to manage risk and not spend to reduce or eliminate it. You do the same thing I would assume in the shops you build regardless of the budget.
Just because an item is not UL listed etc does not mean it's unsafe, nor does being UL listed ensure the device is safe, it simply means its met a standard. Our shop UL lists every panel, that doesn't mean that after we install that panel, that the end user won't add a device that overloads the panel, or change a fuse that then overloads a circuit. The same would hold true with a dust collection system a UL listing would be useless if the the ducting were not properly grounded etc which I believe is part of your point, but lets not equate UL or any other listing to fire safety, proper design and installation is what keeps us safe.
As others have shown, there are numerous posts about grounding dust collection systems, sawstops, etc. Its probably one of the primary reasons I'm here, there are a lot of good ideas here about safer ways to do things. Its evident that this is a passion of yours, and likely you could bring a lot to the table for the rest of us. Perhaps you would be willing to share the design considerations and construction methods that have proven so successful that way we can all look at the risk in our shops and decide if that risk is worth the cost and factor in the insurance implications as well.

[Lee Schierer]

The most common fuss I see in posts of this kind, are people complaining about shops using PVC ductwork for sawdust collection in home workshops.

I have a pvc dust collection system and it was somewhat staticy (is that a word?) for the first few days it was installed. After that the static charge went from hair raising if you got your arm close to the pipe to none at all. My pvc is ungrounded and has virtually no detectable static charge. The original static is from manufacturing processes and disapates over time as dust and dirt contaminate the surface. I've never had so much as a slight tingle when coming in contact with any part of my system, which is connected to a planer, a TS, a router table, a sanding table and is used periodically to sweep the floor.

I also have a fire extinguisher in my shop that has never been used. My insurance company has no problems insuring home shops for hobbbies. My area is served by a VFD and even though they try hard, they will probably only save the basement walls if they ever have to come because 40 year old wood framed houses, even built to code, burn quickly and require lots of water to put them out. That's why I carry total replacement insurance.

$2M for a shop certainly doesn't qualify as a home hobby shop in any sense of the word and should be built strictly to codes and will receive a more rigorous review than the typical home shop.

[Dan Friedrichs]

I have a pvc dust collection system and it was somewhat staticy (is that a word?) for the first few days it was installed. After that the static charge went from hair raising if you got your arm close to the pipe to none at all. My pvc is ungrounded and has virtually no detectable static charge.

Same here, Lee. Ungrounded PVC pipes, that even in this dry Denver air, produce virtually no discernable tingle.

I've also spent quite a bit of time (just because I was interested) trying to find any evidence of a dust collector fire started by a static discharge in a home shop. Not only was I unable to find any concrete evidence, I was unable to even find any anecdotes of it happening. The conditions for such an explosion are just nearly impossible to obtain.

[Zach England]

My "shop" has a washer and dryer in it. Is that an insurance problem?

[Jason Roehl]

My "shop" has a washer and dryer in it. Is that an insurance problem?

Not if your pieces are fully cured before you tumble-polish them in the dryer.

[Matthew Curtis]

Did I miss something?? Did someone have a fire in the shop?? Are all of our favorite woodworking companies selling un-safe equipment?? Someone tell me what we are even debating.. If anyone knows.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Matthew...Just reread the OPs post......

[James A. Wolfe]

After reviewing several of the OP's posts, I am tempted to say something unkind... But that isn't why I like coming to the Creek. Most posters here have a point or a question or offer some genuine topic for review. Alan said it best. Take what you read here for what it's worth and make your decisions based upon your own due diligence. Save the rants for one of the less genteel forums. There are a bunch of those out there. In keeping with my experiences here both as a newbie and as one who's visited here for a few years, let me say,
"Welcome to the Creek".
Inhaling.... Exhaling...
Jim

[David Hostetler]

Well, according to my State Farm agent, they don't need to know, aside from an inventory in case of a loss, unless I am running a business with it. If you'd like the contact information for my agent PM me... UL listing or not doesn't mean anything to them... If they suffer a loss that they believe is caused by a third parties product, they will not hesitate to attemtp to recoup their damages from that 3rd party, so for example, if my Harbor Freight dust collector catches on fire due to wiring problems with the motor, State Farm would have no qualms about suing Harbor Freight, or Central Machinery or whatever the company name really is...

Having said that, when laying out my machinery, electrical, and safety equipment I take into consideration all reliable sources of information, such as my local fire department, the American Red Cross, Safety and Health Engineers I have personal associations with etc... I hire out the electrical work to qualified electricians, I mount sufficient fire extinguishers and smoke detectors etc... To say the least, I have done my due diligence to protect from losses. But there is no way to 100% be prepared for all circumstances.

Now my earlier posts to the OP might have sounded harsh, but they honestly were not meant to. I am honestly confused by what the OP is trying to get at... And after talking with my insurance company, I am even more so confused. I would like very much for the OP to clarify what he is talking about in very specific terms.