Fill grain with shellac before dye?

[Patrick North]

I’m finishing some quartersawn red oak flooring. I’m using Behlen’s aniline dye (water based- the American walnut). For a finish I’m using Tried and True Danish oil (essentially just BLO) followed by several coats of their varnish oil. For durability, Tried and True recommends filling grain with shellac.
When using shellac as a grain filler, should I use it before or after the dye? I’ve read authoritative conflicting reports on this.
I’ve tried several test planks and it seems that using the shellac pore filler first is the way to go- when I use the shellac on top of the dye, it’s nigh on impossible to take off the surface shellac (leaving just the filled pores) without taking up the dyed wood, resulting in a blotchy/uneven appearance. But maybe this is just my poor technique. I’m also thinking that the shellac pore filler is helping to minimize the raising of the grain caused by the water based dye solution (alcohol based is not an option for me here- I need the longer working time).

So…
· Shellac grain filler
· Sand
· Raise grain
· Sand
· Dye
· Burnish
· … then finish?

Thanks,
Patrick North

[Prashun Patel]

Lots of stuff going on here.

Caveat: I'm not an expert.

Pore filler will not improve durability; it will only fill the grain to help achieve a flat (in texture, not sheen) finish.

You can put the filler on before or after the dye. If you dye, then shellac, then when you sand back the shellac to the pores, you risk sanding through the dye. If you shellac, then dye, you impede the dye's penetration.

Because porefilling with shellac involves some aggressive sanding (bad for dye) if it were me, I'd do one of the following:

1) Tint your shellac with your dye.
2) Dye, then seal with a washcoat of shellac, then use an oil based commercial pore filler. This kind will not require aggressive sanding - only a buffing with burlap, and then a light leveling sanding before topping.

My 2c

[Scott Holmes]

The water soluable dye is probably alcohol soluable too.

Hence the lifting of the dye.

This is flooring correct?

Dye it as you wish; then a light seal coat of shellac.

Sanding sealer/grain filler if you insist...

NOW this is were I will recommend a polyurethaane varnish. This is what it's made to finish. Sand it flat after the 2 coat of poly. Poly is a heavy bodied and will "fill " the grain just fine. I'sd skip the Tried & True completely.

[Howard Acheson]

There is a difference between a "sealer" and a "grain filler". Shellac is an excellent sealer but is a poor grain filler. There are very little in the way of solids in shellac and the solids are what settle into and fill the pores and grain. Red oak is a species with very large, deep pores. Many, many coats of shellac would be required to totally fill and level the grain. If you truly are looking for a filled, level surface, use a specific grain filler product.

As already said, you will not be able to apply a dye after shellac. The shellac will seal the surface of the wood largely preventing and absorption of dye.

I would also suggest you re-consider using Tried & True for a floor finish. It is a very soft and not very durable finish. It's fine for some furniture items but will rather quickly become scuffed and require re-application. Application is very labor intensive. It must be applied very thinly, let set for a few minutes and then wiped and buffed totally dry. Multiple coats must be applied. As far as I know, the manufacturer does not suggest using it as a floor finish.