GM vs Chrysler vs Ford vs imports

[Lee Schierer]

I didn't vote because none of the reponses matched my thought which is it will depend on price and dependabillity when I look for my next car. However, Mazda will get the first look. I've owned 7 so far, each had over 120K miles when it was either given to one of the kids getting out of college or totaled by an accident (only one was my fault). With the exception of the newest one 2006 Mazda Tribute (actually a Ford Escape with Mazda Decals) none have been in the shop for repairs or left us stranded. The Tribute has a slow leak in the A/C that hasn't been found yet We faithfully change the oil and do the recommended service. My current Mazda 6 (2005) with 62K miles just made a trip from Erie PA to State College PA (175 miles each way) at 70-72 mph and got 32-33 mpg. It does even better on teh back roads at 55. It can easily go 425-450 miles on a tankfull. It handles like my '95 Miata (60K) and very comfortably seats four full size adults (five if you're friendly in the back seat). It still has one more year of warranty.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Steve,

I have worked on and been around both the trucks you talk about since they have been around. What you just wrote is completly false. The dodge will out pull, out race, and get better mileage loaded or unloaded than the duramax. Plus the cummins motor will last 3 times longer. If the dodge is pathetic compared to the duramax I will be willing to wager that the lift pump is not working. The truck will still run and do everything you would expect but with much lower power when the LIFT pump (not to be confused with the injection pump)quits. Most people don't realize it until they go to replace the fuel filter than it is very hard to restart. How many heads have been replaced on those duramaxes, how many injectors have they burndt up, Wait till they get over 100K then the pistons start breaking. I would take a duramax over a 6.0 ford, but I still wouldn't like it. The dodge/cummins is superior in every way.

I forgot to add the camry I owned. Was a 1 owner bought new from the dealer I bought it from. The previous owners were an older couple in their 60's. As I stated before I bought it with 75k on it. With in 10k miles I have replace one of the evap purge solenoids ($85), and the evap canister ($380). Shortly before the rod bearing started knocking the cat converter started throwing the check engine light due to an efficency failure. That would have cost me another $1200, then the motor started knocking. Before I got around to replacing the motor I dumped the car and went back to something reliable like and american car.

Paul, the crew on this farm use these vehicles every day. One Duramax is a 2007, one a 2008, and the Dodge is a 2007. Glad you have good luck with the Dodges, but I'm not making this up. GM has a winner of an engine/trans combo here. The Dodge and the 2007 Duramax are high end models, the 2008 Duramax is the "work truck" package.

We have a sprayer that uses the Cummins engine out of a 2000 era Dodge pickup. I have replaced the transfer pump on it, as you mentioned.

As for reliability, other then regular maintanance, my Duramax has been to the shop once, because my wife was driving it and the fuel filter clogged. The other Duramax, never, and the Dodge needs to be in for the third time last I knew. All fuel system issues with it. All have 40,000 to 50,000 miles.

I know a guy who bought a new Ford 6.0. Hated it so bad that he traded it off with 250 miles on it! He did buy a Duramax, but Ford has a real dud with their new diesel, IMHO.

[Darius Ferlas]

I don't feel any brand loyalty and that's only fair since I have never experienced any brand's loyalty towards me. Or towards anybody else, for that matter.

I do my best to remain loyal to myself and to my wallet. At the present time that means buying foreign vehicles.

[whit richardson]

Tastes great! Less filling! Taste great! Less ... well you know how it goes. Funny that Detroit lost is butt after the first gas crisis in the 70's. That when the Japanese really started taking the market away from the Big 3. Years later our states (mine's a winner) are fighting to Honda, Nissan and Toyota plants but they have had "quality" issues they didn't before. Still over all most American "believe" that imports last longer and have better value. Most imports keep their resale value (deserved or not) vs. domestic. I am beginning to believe that some of the domestics are actually pretty good cars, but not all. Every guy I know that's been or is a auto mechanic has said the Americans won't design or implement the fixes they know will make the failing parts better. Yet often the import makers do just that so they can stop fixing the same problem. I'm hoping the reinvented domestic makers will ditch their old management style and attitude to engineering. I see signs of that in Ford and it's good for us and our country again. We should expect quality and a lot better milage from all these car makers. I had a 1982 Toyota that went over 400k but I also had a 1966 Buick Electra that did about the same and SMOKED numerous wannabes with that 445 Wildcat w/ 4BBL and a Positrac rear end. Plus it could hold two - three bales of hay in the trunk closed or six dead mafia guys.

[Cary Falk]

I bought a Chevy S10 PU new back in 1995. In the 8 years and 90,000 miles I owned it I put 5 sets of tires and 4 brake jobs. The truck would not hold alignment and would unevenly wear the tires. I aligned the tires about every time I rotated the tires(3000 miles). I talked to the dealership and they told me to stop driving on the median. I have never hade brakes wear so fast in my life. Every year for the last 3 years I owned it, it had a major breakdown that would cost me over a grand to fix. We had a 4Runner for 4 years and it never went in the shop once. I traded the Chevy in for a Toyota Tundra and haven't looked back. I will never own anything but Toyota or Honda for ther rest of my life.

[John Lohmann]

If you only buy used cars, could you ever have a classic? 55 Chevy, 64+ Mustang? Being the only owner has some privileges.

[Greg Peterson]

I don't feel any brand loyalty and that's only fair since I have never experienced any brand's loyalty towards me. Or towards anybody else, for that matter.

I do my best to remain loyal to myself and to my wallet. At the present time that means buying foreign vehicles.

While the Japanese manufacturers were trying to make better, higher quality vehicles, the domestic manufacturers were only interested in planned obsolence.

I have no sympathy for any company that purposely produces an inferior product and relies on a way loyalty from their customers. But I guess that isn't the way the corporate world works.

[Gene Howe]

I drive a V10 Ford 250 Super Duty long bed. Don't really care much about mileage. Would've bought a rice burner if I did. Gotta have the truck for hauling stuff, though.
Son just bought a new Tundra with the V8. His mileage isn't anything to brag about, either. HOWEVER, I REALLY LIKE THAT TRUCK! If Toyota ever builds a 3/4 ton for the US market, I'll be in line to buy one.

[Paul Ryan]

Paul,

Talk to Dodge about drilling holes in their frames to install a 5th wheel hitch and whether it voids their warrantee.

I suggest while the Cummins engine might be strong, the frame on the Dodge is designed with little extra relief and therefore they did, a few years ago, warn my neighbor about drillijng holes in the frame. He ended up finding the only hitch that would use the existing holes in his brand new nearly $40K. That hitch was a gooseneck and thus he had to drill, mount and weld a kit to the trailer to tow it with his new truck.

I know of a contractor that has several Cummins diesel Dodges. His comment....strong engines...weak frame.

I suggest that Toyota outselling GM suggests that your experience with your Camry may have been a little different than others experience.

Ken,

I worked in a chrysler dealership for 17 years. I have never heard of a warranty being flagged due to a 5th wheel hitch being installed. I can personally say I have installed no less than 20 5th wheel hitches and at least that many Ag hitches. The dealer or whoever flagged that warranty must of had an axe to grind, or the hitch was installed very very poorly. Never in all of my years at the chrysler training classes has the issue of drilling holes in frames to mount hitches ever came up. I really can't comment about the frames being week. I have seen those pickups do amazing things, like going over scales at a gross weight of 45k lbs, and pulling trailers with 1/2 of a modular house on it. I can tell you this when I worked at a Ford dealer this was back in 00 the frames on the ford 150's were the laughing stock because you could squeeze the frame near the rear tire with your hand and bend the it. But in all of my years I have never seen any frame failures on any vehicles unless it was in some sort of an accident a head of time.

As far as sales go, just because the camry sells more than other vehicles doesn't mean it is better. Personally I wouldn't buy a GM car due some issues that I think should have been taken care of years ago. I will name one. Any of you that have owned a GM vehicle with a 3.1, 3.4, 3.5, or 3.9 engine, and have put head gaskets in them should be ticked. The 2.8 was acutally the first of this model engine. When the 3.1 came out head gaskets became an issue. They leak oil, this same problem continues today on the lastest and greatest design the 3.9. What is causing this is the fact that GM continues to use graphite head gaskets in those motors. GM has switched to metal head gaskets in their trucks and some other motors, but not in V6 models. Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and other companies learned back in the middle 90's that to greatly reduce the amount of gasket failures was to switch to a metal ply head gasket, or a rubber empregnated metal gasket on other components. Dont get me wrong GM has problems and some vehicles are basket cases. But it is my opinion that the imports aren't any better, and I have experience to back that up. For some reason the majority of our population believes that the imports are just heads and tails better cars than the domestics.

Import owners are trained from day one that they need to do their required maintenace. And most owners do it religously. You try to tell a domestic owner that and you and up with a fight on your hands. Things are changing but slowly. That isn't the only problems but it has alot to do with it.

[glenn bradley]

Well . .. we knew this one could get ugly ;-) Kudos to all for openly expressing your opinions and sharing your experiences without getting out of hand.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Paul,

My neighbor is a retired school teacher. He'll be here in about 5 minutes to help me install the new bathtub in our masterbath I have gutted right now. He had a new 5th wheel he bought prior to buying his Dodge 1-ton Cummins. After he bought the truck he asked the dealership if he could install the Reese 20K hitch he had used in his Ford F-250 to tow his trailer. He was told by the dealership that if he drilled any holes in the frame of this 1-ton Dodge, it would void the warrantee. He found a lone manufacturer who makes a gooseneck hitch that clamps to the Dodge frame and uses existing holes. He bought it and a kit for his trailer from the same company. He installed the hitch on the truck and the kit on the trailer and coverted the trailer to a non-adjustable gooseneck hitch.

Believe me, this guy is mister thorough and as honest as the day is long. If I had to have someone else purchase anything of any importance for me, he's the man I'd select. If he says it's so.....that's what he was told by the dealership.

I'm just repeating what a close dear honest friend of mine told me.

[Brian Elfert]

My current vehicle is a cross between an import and a domestic. I have a Pontiac Vibe which is a GM car, but basically designed by Toyota with lots of Toyota parts. It is a Toyota Matrix with Pontiac sheet metal and name badges. It has a Toyota engine and transmission.

The Vibe is produced by NUMMI which is a joint venture between GM and Toyota. NUMMI operates a plant in Fremont, CA with UAW workers. It is the only Toyota affiliated plant, at least in the USA, that is union. NUMMI used to produce Geo branded vehicles for GM, most notably the Geo Prizm which was an exact copy of the Toyota Corolla.

Interestingly enough, the Toyota Matrix is made in Canada and not at the NUMMI plant in California.

[Jim Finn]

[QUOTE=Paul Greathouse;1171363]My response dosen't really fit into the poll, so here goes. I drove Fords (trucks and cars) until the mid 90's. The first GM I purchased was a 95' GMC 3/4 ton truck. It has by far been the most dependable vehicle I have ever owned.
Exactly opposite of my experiance. GM products are what I rove for 30 years until I was issued a Ford to drive for work. MUCH better milage, cheaper repairs ,hich were almost non existant ,nd more relible than the GM trucks I had owned in the past. I now have been driving Fords for 20 years.

[Paul Ryan]

Paul,

My neighbor is a retired school teacher. He'll be here in about 5 minutes to help me install the new bathtub in our masterbath I have gutted right now. He had a new 5th wheel he bought prior to buying his Dodge 1-ton Cummins. After he bought the truck he asked the dealership if he could install the Reese 20K hitch he had used in his Ford F-250 to tow his trailer. He was told by the dealership that if he drilled any holes in the frame of this 1-ton Dodge, it would void the warrantee. He found a lone manufacturer who makes a gooseneck hitch that clamps to the Dodge frame and uses existing holes. He bought it and a kit for his trailer from the same company. He installed the hitch on the truck and the kit on the trailer and coverted the trailer to a non-adjustable gooseneck hitch.

Believe me, this guy is mister thorough and as honest as the day is long. If I had to have someone else purchase anything of any importance for me, he's the man I'd select. If he says it's so.....that's what he was told by the dealership.

I'm just repeating what a close dear honest friend of mine told me.

Ken,

I believe you. But I can assure you that, that dealer was blowing smoke. Your friend should have called chrylser and asked them, or tried another dealer. That is completly false, drilling holes for the mount is allowable. Many trucks are ordered in a chassis cab design an are all drilled up to add boxes, cranes, hitches, and other equipment and those warranties are not voided. I don't know the exact cirumstances but that is just completly not true. It is too bad that he was treated that way. There are alot of modifications that are allowed to the frame and box area. The biggest thing we were taught to focus on were the places that changed the fuel fill neck. There were lots of places that added boxes but didn't cover the fill neck. Sometimes it was completely exposed and not even capped. That is a recipe for disaster.

[David Cramer]

Whit said "I am beginning to believe that some of the domestics are actually pretty good cars, but not all." They are pretty good.

I must say that I respectfully disagree about GM. We own a 2003 Chevy Silverado and it hasn't given me a lick of trouble, none. I am the one who mainly drives it.

We also own a Chevy Venture (Van) that is almost 10 years old. We've taken it to Florida 3 times and Hershey Penn. once. We drive it up north and down north. It "barely" has any rust on it and pures like a kitten. I've never changed the plugs once, but will be doing so soon. Nothing major has happened and I'm no mechanic.

ALL make and models of cars, both foreign and domestic have lemons or poorly made vehicles. Overall, I've never had one problem with a GM vehicle and neither has my wife or ANY family members. We had a 5 year warranty on the Venture and never brought it in once.

My father has bought GM and Ford pick-ups that have done him well for over a decade each. My father has hauled a 5th wheel for 10 years with a GM truck. He is "extremely" mechanically inclined and knows vehicles inside and out. When I was a little kid, he was "that Dad" in the neighborhood who other dads came to for car questions.............My dad is very happy with his GM vehicle.

I have a friend who had a Honda Accord a few years back and had more than one "major" issue with it, yet many have driven them as long as my wife and I have driven our Venture and have had no issues.

I'm not trying to create conflict, but my opinion is just that, mine, and it's based off my personal experiences and no one elses.

David

p.s. I'm not trying to make this ugly, but others have said their next vehicle purchase will be foreign and I just wanted to say that ours will be American, 100%. With a 5 year warranty, I'm good.