GM vs Chrysler vs Ford vs imports

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Uh David! Go to a dealer...a Chevy dealer...raise the hood. You ain't gonna be able to buy a "100 % American" ....a goodly number of parts are made in Mexico....Indonesia....yep! even China.


Folks, whether we like it or not. "American companies" are global and "foreign companies" are global. My wife's Honda Accord made right here in the USA. My neighbor's Toyota "made right here in the USA." While American companies increase the % of foreign manufactured parts they put in the cars they build here.....the "foreign manufacturers" increase the % of American manufactured parts they put in the cars they build here.

Years ago....the Chevy my younger brother drove while going to college.....made by Toyota.


It is nearly impossible to buy "100% American" anything.

Regardless of where a car is manufactured:

1. It is a stupid buyer who spends hard earned "American" dollars ( or foreign currency if that's the case) on a poorly manufactured vehicle. I don't care where that vehicle is manufactured.

2. It is poor business on the part of business and labor to manufacture a poor product whether it's a poor design..bad parts or poor job of assembly. Eventually it will come back to bite you.

For me...and others a car is the 2nd most expensive thing you will buy in your lifetime. For me these tend to be what I refer to as "Long Buying Cycle" items. In other words, because they are so expensive, I will drive them for a considerable length of time.....10 or more years if possible....just to get my money's worth.

It behooves me to buy the best quality I can afford...regardless of where it's manufactured.

And....everyone has a right to have their own opinion and state that opinion.

[Alan Trout]

In reality most manufactures make excellent cars compared to 30 years ago. I remember as a kid having to change bias-ply tires every 20k and a tuneup ever 10 to 15k. If any car made 100k without an overhaul it was amazing.

I have owned Fords, Chevy's, Chrysler products, Jaguars, VW's, BMW's, Nissan, Isuzu, and Audi, and I can honestly say they have all been good cars.

I owned an automotive machine shop for 8 years that I sold in 1993. I worked in the machine shop business from the time I was 15 till I was 30 years old.

I specialized in aluminum cylinder head repair but worked on a little of everything. I had many dealer accounts and by far the worst engines domestic or foreign were Mitsubishi products. But all of them had at least one lemon powertrain. This included what many consider to be tops in quality of Honda and Toyota.

Myself I drive a 02 four door Dodge Dakota full time 4x4 truck that has right at 200k miles. I have put one set of brakes with new rotors a left front wheel bearing one set of spark plugs and one set of tires getting ready for the next set. It uses no oil and runs like a champ. It is by far the best truck that I have ever owned. I have ruined all of the speakers by playing The Cult "Electric" CD a bit to loud but that is my fault. It even gets reasonable gas mileage for a V8 full time 4x4, 16 city and 18 hwy.

Probably the most amazing vehicle I have ever owned is my diesel VW Jetta. It has amazing power it will run 90mph all day long and at 75mph on the highway I get right at 50mpg and about 43mpg city. In 100k miles the only thing I have done to it is change oil regularly, one set of tires and the serpentine belt. I need to change the timing belt because it is time.

Really nothing fit in the pole for me. I don't know if I will ever buy another new car. As someone said it is a poor financial decision in that nothing looses money as fast as a new car. But if I were to buy a new car/truck it boils down to what fits my needs at the time I am looking. I never thought that I would buy a Chrysler product but at the time it was the best option for me and I looked at all of the foreign and domestic options.

It is sad that our domestic automtive industry is in the shape that it is in but in reality this all started in the 60's and 70's with poor managment decisions combined with crazy legacy cost of labor; their competitive edge was going to sooner or later faulter, which it has.

I guess my best answer would be, I would buy the best vehicle for my needs at the time no mater the brand. In reality quality across the board is very close.

Good Luck

Alan

[David Cramer]

Sorry Ken, and I say this without any tone of being a smart aleck (I truly respect you)........I never said 100% American made anywhere in my post. Foreign cars aren't 100% foreign either, but I just assumed everyone already knew that.

I choose to buy a vehicle that is built here, in the United States of America. I choose not to buy one that has originated from a foreign country, which is my right. I read, with thought and respect, all the posts on this thread before giving my own opinion. I would not bash anyone for buying a foreign vehicle in this thread or in person. Please check my SMC history and you will see that I am telling the truth.

If it helps, I live in Michigan. I know where what I purchase is built and by whom.

This is off-topic, I know, but I was at a funeral service in Troy, Michigan on the Monday before last. The man was 84 and was in Iwo Jima in World War II (March of 1945). I am not that old, but I was brought to tears by the three marines that gave this man a military send off to the heavens above. To call it a moving moment would not give it due justice. He worked at Ford's for over 40 years, and he worked hard.

Again, I know what's under the hood of what I buy and would not purchase it without that knowledge. My last 2 vehicles were from GM and my next one will be too, although it might be awhile.

I paid $16,030 for my Silverado (work truck with an extended cab) and use it for my profession 5 days a week. If it lasts 10 years or more, "what more can I ask from it" and why would I buy something else? The math tells me that it comes out to $133.58 per month for 10 years and I still own the vehicle after that. Nothing lasts forever, but that's pretty good, don't ya think?

David

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Whit said "I am beginning to believe that some of the domestics are actually pretty good cars, but not all." They are pretty good.

I must say that I respectfully disagree about GM. We own a 2003 Chevy Silverado and it hasn't given me a lick of trouble, none. I am the one who mainly drives it.

We also own a Chevy Venture (Van) that is almost 10 years old. We've taken it to Florida 3 times and Hershey Penn. once. We drive it up north and down north. It "barely" has any rust on it and pures like a kitten. I've never changed the plugs once, but will be doing so soon. Nothing major has happened and I'm no mechanic.

ALL make and models of cars, both foreign and domestic have lemons or poorly made vehicles. Overall, I've never had one problem with a GM vehicle and neither has my wife or ANY family members. We had a 5 year warranty on the Venture and never brought it in once.

My father has bought GM and Ford pick-ups that have done him well for over a decade each. My father has hauled a 5th wheel for 10 years with a GM truck. He is "extremely" mechanically inclined and knows vehicles inside and out. When I was a little kid, he was "that Dad" in the neighborhood who other dads came to for car questions.............My dad is very happy with his GM vehicle.

I have a friend who had a Honda Accord a few years back and had more than one "major" issue with it, yet many have driven them as long as my wife and I have driven our Venture and have had no issues.

I'm not trying to create conflict, but my opinion is just that, mine, and it's based off my personal experiences and no one elses.

David

p.s. I'm not trying to make this ugly, but others have said their next vehicle purchase will be foreign and I just wanted to say that ours will be American, 100%. With a 5 year warranty, I'm good.

??????????????

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David,I'm not trying to be a jerk either.

I am currently driving a '90 Ford F-350 4WD, 460, 5-speed, 4:10 rear end. I bought it used with 123,000 miles on it. Though I bought it from a dealer I know for a fact it's previous owner was a cattle rancher. Though I've had it for 13 years and I washed it and it's underside many, many times, when ever I drive it in the rain, it smells like wet cow patties. 11 mpg..uphill, downhill, into the wind...down wind.....empty...loaded....pulling my 9,000 lb 5th wheel....1,000 lbs. of hay on it...it doesn't matter..11mpg.I buy the best value and quality I can afford. I will often pay more to get better quality.

[Wes Bischel]

We had been planning for a while to buy a new (new or used) car this fall. But honestly, we can't find anything that seems to be worth the money and hassle. Our "good" car is 8 years old, the commuter car is 13 and the lumber hauler is 40. The gas mileage on comparable new cars is the same or worse. The features available on new cars aren't that much better than what we've got - at least not $20K better.
I'm a real motorhead, and I still can't get really excited about any manufacturers offering. Add to that, when buying a new car, you then take a huge hit on the insurance premiums - almost like adding a few extra car payments each year.
A few weeks ago I spent $120 fixing the "good" car. Ticked me off until I realized that was the first repair it needed in years. And if we had a new car we'd be shelling out three times that every month.
I think I'll just keep driving what I got.
Wes

[Paul Ryan]

Wes,

You're a smart man. 8 years old isn't that old. We have an 02 mini van, 96 pickup, and 07 sedan. The sedan gets the majority of the miles. I put on about 1000 a week. Sometimes more sometimes a little less. I change the oil every 5k and that seems to run about every 5 weeks. I have told many many people this. If you have something good run it. Dont buy something new just to have something new. If you have a good vehicle and you end up with a major repair say something that runs $1500. Think about it what kind of vehicle could you buy for $1500. It would be a piece of you know what.

The only reason I own an 07 right now is mostly because of the beloved camry I had. I ran over to a town 25 miles away to do some work. On the way over the motor decided to be quite that morning. After leaving the facility I was at, the check engine light (converter) went off too. So I decided to drive through a dealers lot. Low and behold I found something that would be a comparable car 07 sebring for the right price. The dealer took my camry test drove it and we haggled over a price for it. He ended up giving me more than I expected even if it didn't have the issues it did. So I drove away with a different car with a lifetime warranty on the engine, trans, and drivetrain. I felt kind of bad dumping that thing off on him, but he had his chance to check it over. All that went through his mind for the 3 blocks he test drove the camry must have been, its a toyota they never break. When I bought that toyota I expected to drive it until it had 300-400k on it. Well it didn't work out. The sebring I am driving now has been wonderful so far. 37 MPG on the interstate at 75. There are somethings I liked about the toyota better, but over all I feel the chrysler is a better car. It handles better, rides better, the seat has a lot more support. The motor makes a bit more engine noise when acclerating, that is what I had noticed first, was how quite the camry was (with a good motor)and how noisy the sebring seem to be. But after about a week of driving I don't even notice it anymore. I don't know how long I will have it. Probably until it gets smashed or something. I dont have the time to be replacing engines and trannys that is what the warranty is for. It actuall covers a lot more than just the engine. Covers water pump, serp belt, wheel bearings, sensors, PCM, TCM, engine and trans leaks and more. If I end up with AC issues, PS issues, or things like that most of it can be taken care of in an afternoon. But if you have a car that you trust and has been good to you most of the time it makes more sense to fix it than replace it.

[Rod Sheridan]

I've owned three "Big Three" vehicles, and two Japanese vehicles.

The Japanese vehicles were more reliable, and parts were equal to, or less expensive to purchase than the "Big Three".

One of the vehicles was a Chrysler minivan with the Mitsubishi 4 cylinder engine. I purchased it with a blown engine after the original owner forgot to put oil in it.

I had heard many horror stories about the head gaskets on this engine, however after reading the service manual, I wasn't worried about it.

Why? The manual recommended a head bolt re-torque every time the valves were adjusted. (Yes it had the old style mechanical adjusters just like my BMW bike).

Well, I performed routine maintenance as per the manufacturers schedule and put another 267,000Km on the van with no engine or transmission problems.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. The poll selections are inadequate, any response such as "I'd never buy a......" are only applicable to people who can predict the future. How could I possibly know whether a particular group of manufacturers would build a product in the future that I might want to purchase?

[Scott Shepherd]

So which one's are the "imports" everyone keeps referring to? Import means it comes from another country, right?

Honda and Toyota are made here and have been for decades. Ford and Chevy have powertrains, etc. made in Canada and Mexico. So doesn't that make Ford and Chevy just as much an import as a Honda or Toyota?

They used to come in on ships (I know, I washed them when they came in my first job), now they come from Ohio. I didn't realize we imported from Ohio

[Brent Leonard]

Nothing better than a Ford IMO. I own 2 Ford trucks.

We have purchased 2 new GM products in the last 5 years, an '04 Cadillac CTS and an '08 GMC Acadia. We purchased our second GM product (the Acadia) due to the deal we got from GM for trading in the CTS and buying another GM vehicle (the Acadia). The CTS had a couple computer issues after we initially bought it, but GM fixed them with no other problems. The Acadia had both tranny seals go out at 25k miles. GM fixed it under warranty, but I was not impressed that a major drivetrain component needed to be repaired at 25k miles.

Rice burners make me want to vomit. That would be any car built by an asian company. I don't care if they are partialy assembled in Kentucky (or wherever else in the US), they still make me sick.

[David Cramer]

Ken I'm not being a jerk either and am only politely expressing my opinion, but..................I don't know what the ???????????????????? would mean.

You are far from dumb so I believe you knew exactly what I meant by what you highlighted in my post.

If I had made your post and you had made mine, there would have been way more people supporting your post, and that is fine with me. We're on SMC and you're Ken Fitzgerald and I'm lowly David Cramer. Your tank is always going to be bigger than mine, and that's fine too, you've earned it with your time and input. In the grand scheme of things, it means nothing more than 2 people expressing their own views in a civil manner.

I believe, but don't know for sure, that most people who read my post knew "exactly" what I was saying which is why they didn't respond with ???????????????, but you did.

I was recently without work Ken, but I'm college educated and married with 2 kids and as easy going as they come. I know all about global this and global that.
---------------------------------------------------------------------The bottom line is this: If I buy a GM or I buy a Honda, which one is domestic and which one is foreign, and yes, it's really that simple. It's not all about where the parts are from (everywhere!) or where are they built, but where does the money go friend? Who owns the company and gets the lion's share of the money?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Your opinion is no more important than mine and "mine is no more important than yours". We have different beliefs based off of our personal experiences and the knowledge that we've acquired at this point in our lives. Even if we sat at a table face to face and never agreed on everything, I still enjoy reading your posts. With that said, I could hardly agree with all of your ideology and beliefs just as you would never agree with mine. That's what makes the world go around.

For me, I will not be a part of tearing down something that took decades to build. As I said, our vehicle is still going strong and I expect our Silverado to do the same. Our GM and Ford (past) vehicles are fine and we've had no complaints.

Respectfully,

David

p.s. I've got my bullet proof vest on so let'em rip.

[Chris Kennedy]

---------------------------------------------------------------------The bottom line is this: If I buy a GM or I buy a Honda, which one is domestic and which one is foreign, and yes, it's really that simple. It's not all about where the parts are from (everywhere!) or where are they built, but where does the money go friend? Who owns the company and gets the lion's share of the money?
---------------------------------------------------------------------

The lion's share of the money generated by a car is not the sale, it's the service. That is where the dealerships make the overwhelming majority of their money. So, it really doesn't matter where the car was made from that standpoint, unless you are diving across a border to get your car serviced.

Cheers,

Chris

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David,

First...your opinion is just as important as mine. The fact that I am a Moderator at SMC has absolutely no effect on the importance or validity of my opnion. I can just as wrong as the next guy but I should be able to also state my opinion. It's just another opinion.

Having an opinion doesn't mean it's right or wrong...Just means one is opinionated.

Toyota didn't become #1 overnight just like GM didn't get to where it is overnight. GMs problems were brought on by decades of the company overlooking the quality of their product in favor of quantity......giving in to extremely unusual worker benefits as compared to other companies and treating unhappy customers with a calloused attitude.

I really don't have an ideology. I'm neither a conservative nor a liberal. I think too many people get tunnel visioned. They get so wrapped up in the wam fuzzy feelings of an ideology that they don't see the distortions placed on the ideology by the "X" factor Man. I try to be more of a realist. Theory and practice in reality often aren't recognizable as being related.

Reading your post I don't know if you are still out of work or not. In any case if you are still unemployed, I hope you find work soon!

[Scott Donley]

Ford and Chevy did not seem interested in selling me what I wanted, I tried But Nissan did. I wanted 4X4, auto trans, short bed, and v-6. Ford and Chevy dealer kept trying to sell me a V-8, long bed, manual trans cause that is all they had on their lot and did not want to make the effort to find me one. Their loss.

[Jim Becker]

"Imports" is a problem term for me, as the leading non-US based automakers are manufacturing a very healthy portion of their vehicles in North America and the US-based automakers source globally, too.

Toyota won me over a number of years ago--both of our vehicles are hybrids. (The hybrids did come on ships) I currently drive a Highlander Hybrid Limited. My previous vehicle was a Toyota Tundra and the only reason I sold it was the need for "kid space". Chrysler 300M prior to that and I loved it. Mazda Millenia S prior to that. Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited prior to that. The last GM product I owned was in the early 1990s and that was a Chevy Astro Van. I've never owned a Ford. I did own a VW Rabbit...and one made in Pennsylvania, no less...the first 5-speed, four door that left the now-gone Westmorland plant back in 1979.

Ford is impressing me with what they are doing these days--they seem to have gotten the message that quality and innovation really are important. GM has a way to go to catch my eye. I'm hoping that Chrysler's new owners help the company move forward in a positive manner.