GM vs Chrysler vs Ford vs imports

[Phil Thien]

"Imports" is a problem term for me

I'm sure there have to have been some good studies done on the economic impact of auto manufacturing here in the U.S. by foreign manufacturers (like Honda).

It would be interesting to find out if Honda building factories here in the U.S. favors us more than Japan. That is, more and more parts are made here, the cars are assembled here, all paying a good wage (let's not debate that), the factories are taxed, the profits are taxed, the wages are taxed.

Yes, profits can be funneled back to Japan. But the question is, how much profit from a $20k car is left to funnel back?

Anyone have any good links?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Phil,

I really think it's so complex that nobody knows or could decipher it. For example, what if I own Toyota or Honda stock? So if some of the profit goes back to the parent company, I as a US citizen would benefit through stock ownership.

It is really unbelieveably complex. Some folks would like to simplify it but IMHO it is nearly impossible to do so.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

My main points through this whole thread has been:

1. Research the vehicle's reliability, MPG numbers and anything else that is important to you.

2. Spend your money wisely.

Car manufacturers have to earn my business. I refuse to give my business to a US manufacturer or import manufacturer just because of the country of origin of the company. For my American dollar, they got get it the old fashion way....earn it.

[Paul Ryan]

My main points through this whole thread has been:

1. Research the vehicle's reliability, MPG numbers and anything else that is important to you.

2. Spend your money wisely.

Car manufacturers have to earn my business. I refuse to give my business to a US manufacturer or import manufacturer just because of the country of origin of the company. For my American dollar, they got get it the old fashion way....earn it.

I couldn't agree with Ken any more. To buy a Honda, Toyota, Chrysler, Gm, or Ford just because someone else told you too is foolish. You really need to check the car out for yourself.

I bought my camry because I wanted to know what all the hubbub was about. To be honest it was a nice car, but had quality issues. I was impressed with the quiteness of it. It did not seem like a cheap japanese car to me. The type that when you close the door it sounded like the door skin was going to fall off. But in the end that car was no better than what else was offered. I don't care who makes the car rod bearings just dont mushroom in relativly low miles any more. But stuff happens. Was I upset about it sure, but I got over it. I really cant ever see myself buy another import car in the near future. The biggest reason is the fact I don't buy new, it doesn make sense with the ammount of driving I do. An apples to apples the used imports are WAY over priced. A camry that compared to my sebring at the time I bought it would have run me $6000 more. There is no way in heck that that car is worth that, no way. An as it turned out when I bought the camry, I spent alot more for that car at the time, and it burnt me bad. I could have bought a malibu, stratus sebring, or focus and put a whole bunch of $$ into one of those cars before I got to the price that the camry was when I bought it. I really feel that I did not spend my $$ wisly when I bought that camry. It was a good car when I bought it, 1 owner yada yada. But I leaned my lesson.

[David Cramer]

Um, sorry Paul, but I had to ask. You said you couldn't agree with Ken any more and that to buy a car because someone told them to is foolish? I certainly never did and I stated as such, nor did I see the post. Was the post yanked or edited by the poster of this statement? I can't get on here as often as others can, so I assume I missed something.

Also, this is off-topic, but can someone contact Perry Holbrook, please. If you try to open up his homepage, you get a Malware Virus and yes I am being serious. It just happened to me and my Webroot popped up and said to block the action immediately. If it doesn't happen to anyone else, it would be our computer, but that doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks, David

[whit richardson]

BUT if I had the $$$$'s I'd get the new Camaro SS or the Charger SRT (425 foot lbs of rear wheel torque)... ooooh bring on the memories and the tickets!


(If I had even more $$$$ I'd buy a frame up restoration of the originals.)

[Larry Wadman]

Was always a GM fan but not anymore. Still have a 3500 Express but just bought two new Honda's.

[Dino Makropoulos]

My next car is a new Fiat spider ...Made in USA By GM.
The partnership of Fiat and GM is very promising.

If GM and Fiat don't bring back the Spider, I will.

[Karl Brogger]

I thought Fiat was going to be slowly buying Chrysler from the taxpayers? Not GM.

[Dino Makropoulos]

I thought Fiat was going to be slowly buying Chrysler from the taxpayers? Not GM.

Then my next car is a Fiat/Chrysler.

[Dick Strauss]

Paul,
I can understand you disappointment with the Camry you prurchased. I would have been bummed too! However, I wouldn't want to right off a brand because I bought something used that didn't hold up well not knowing its real history. A simple thing that has been neglected like oil changes can trash an engine in a hurry whether it be a GM, Chrysler, Honda, or Toyota. That is why I buy new when possible...I don't want to gamble whether or not I got someone else's problem.

I would agree that many of the used import cars are overpriced. Right now if you know how to negotiate a good deal on a new car, you can buy a new Honda for almost the same price of a 2 yo factory certified (AKA used) car. However, this works to your advantage if you buy an import new and need to trade it in (you get more on trade-in). Domestic cars end up losing their value faster which is to your benefit if you like to buy used but to your detriment if you buy new. This is a big factor in the cost of car ownership calculations.

All,
I had an '89 Honda Civic that still averaged 40 mpg after 14 years and 360K miles of service when I traded it in for an Accord. I only had to do normal maintenance (oil, brakes, tires along with one timing belt/water pump/belt changeover) in all of those miles IIRC. Oh, I did tear the CV shaft boot and had to have the CV shafts replaced but it was my own fault. Civics are not off road vehicles though mine often treaded into those areas!

My sister has an Accord that has just under 200k miles on it that her daughter in now using. It has had no issues other than regular maintenance. She just bought another Accord.

We have a Honda/Toyota family because we've had good luck with their smaller cars. If I needed a truck, Ford and GM would be at the top of the list because they have a very good reputation in that arena.

To be fair, many of the new Fords and GMs get better mileage than their import brothers according to the new ratings.

[Pat Germain]

Never have, and never plan on buying a "new" car. I think it's a bad money choice, who want's something that drops value so drastically just by taking it off the lot?

I don't think that's always the case; especially these days.

My son and daughter were recently in the market for a nice, used car. Independently, they decided they wanted a Toyota Corolla. This was due to reliability and MPG. And they just like the car.

My son went looking for some late-model, used Corollas. The prices were ridiculous. Everybody wanted over $13,000 for anything decent. Apparently, everyone goes to Edmunds.com and looks for the absolute highest going price for their car. And that's what they ask. Even if they come down some in price, it's way too much for a used car.

My son emailed a couple of Toyota dealerships in the Seattle area. One guy replied very enthusiastically. He even drove to my son's apartment and picked him up. That dealer found the exact car my son wanted at another dealer north of the city. They had it delivered for free. They priced it closed to cost. They financed it at 0.0% for five years. Shoot, with 0.0% interest, unless you're paying cash, why buy a used car?

My daughter is now looking for a 2007 Corolla and she's finding the same thing in Colorado; around $13,000 or more. But you can pick up the same year GM, Ford or Chrysler for only a few thousand. So yeah, US cars depreciate drastically once you drive them off the lot. Not so much with a Toyota.

[Joel Goodman]

I for one would pay a premium for a 90 percent American vehicle that was well engineered -- and build as designed -- not cheapened up by the MBAs that run things-- but I don't think anyone will make one for me!
I bought a new Ford Explorer (6 cy manual tranny) for myself and a new Honda Civic (also stick) for my son in 1999. In the first year the Honda had no issues while the Ford had the following work done:
Door hinge failed -- dealer removed door and replaced hinge (some air leaks in as job was imperfect. no charge
Clutch replaced with previous years model due to an engineering problem (never acknowledged by Ford but after much screaming head mechanic at the dealer said "you're not the first person to have a problem with this clutch" no charge
Tires failed (Firestone fiasco) at first Ford was no help -- eventually paid for new tires minus $150 (don't ask!!!)
At 45K rear end went out -- my dime to fix and it's starting a little humming again.
At some point the center console armrest failed due to poor design -- rebuilt it better myself.
By the way the Honda still has no issues --except for the dents my son put in it and an intermittent slight squeal from the clutch which I'm sure suffered from teenage driveritis.
I still like the Explorer -- I'm just not sure I would buy another vehicle from Ford.

[Dan Karachio]

For my wife and family my choice has been and will probably continue to be Subaru. People can present data otherwise if they have it, but for the money I don't think you can get a safer crash worthy car than a Subaru. "Poor man's Volvo" you might say, though of course, way more reliable than a Volvo.

However, for me and a second car/truck I really want to look at what the domestics have to offer. I think Ford and GM make some great products, but Chrysler - no way, I can't do it and never will. Too many memories of the 70s garbage they put out. My cousin worked for Chrysler in the late 70s as he put himself through medical school. Many tales of good old union workers passing dope down the line and purposely damaging the vehicles they were building. I'm sure those days are long gone.

Healthcare costs are the auto companies biggest problem and now it is starting to be the countries biggest problem as well. I'd like us all to fix this mess and it will help US companies when we do.

[Bart Leetch]

The way I read all this is that if its man made it can have problems just like man himself. Thats been my experience with every vehicle I've ever owned.