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Thread: A Hero's Farewell

  1. #31
    John I was there from 5 August 1968 to 23 August 1969. Until late Nov '68 I was with B 1/7 as an 0331 M60 gunner. Dec 68 was spent in CAP school in DaNang and from Jan '69 until I rotated I served with 1st CAG in various teams in the Tam Ky area (MTT1-1, 1-1-6, 1-1-7, and 1-1-4 which I commanded as a Cpl) I was to say the least far far to the south of the Z.

    When I joined 1/7 we were at hill 10 and in October moved out to hill 65 just south of Charlie Ridge and a bit to the west and north of Dodge City and the Arizona Territory. It was a fire base with a battery of 105s and a mixed battery of 8" SP howitzers and 175 SP long barrels.

    Normally a Marine would say, "I was a Marine", " was with B 1/7", "I was in the Marine Corps", or something similar. Never I was "in the Marines". Any Marine would know that 1/7 was in the 1st Maine Divison as were 1st and 5th Marines. I had friends who served with 1/9 AKA "The Walking Dead", another fact that any Marine would know.

    I notice that you too have a "blood donor ribbon" Got a pair of them myself. I'm impressed to see that you have 2 bronze stars. Fine work there.
    Last edited by Dave Anderson NH; 07-13-2009 at 7:17 PM. Reason: error
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  2. #32
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    I had a feeling you were in the Nam from your comments to Ken. Frankly.. if you served in the Corp between 67'-72'.. you most likely ended up in Nam for 1 tour if not two as most did in some form or function. I couldn't come close to guessing how many times I stole from the logistically rich (Army) and gave to the logistically poor (Marines) as they seemed not to get re-supply of necessities as often. And we had an abundance of Huey Slicks to carry it. Cases of M 60 7.62 mm machine gun linked belts and 40 mike-mike rounds for the thump gun especially. The Marine officers were proud and didn't want their troops to take anything from the Army but.. the troops were glad to get the stuff and what officiers don't know won't hurt them.

    Thanks on the 2 Bronze Stars... simply a matter of being at the wrong place at the right time and do what you had to do or else.... BTW... I got the Purple on Hill 360 if my memory serves me well just east of the then demolished Khe Sahn Firebase about 5 days before I was to take a Slick out of the field to go back to base-camp to begin the journey back to the U.S. I stayed out for two more days with Russian rockety propelled shrapnel in me as we were tangling with the NVA 3rd at the time and anyone with a pulse was needed.. Still got a few pieces hanging in there that has not made it'w way out as most did. Sovenir I guess you might say.

    Regards...
    Sarge..

    Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
    Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler

  3. #33
    I was just reading about pretenders to the corps. not sure if I find that pathetic -for I know people who have looked me in the eye and said” I was in the marines but washed out in boot camp Paris island-”- or maybe just as sad some who said
    “ I couldn’t pass the physical to get in the marines.”
    As to those who needed to fabricate their service in the corps in my day -Ok so that was old corps -
    we had a question that settled the issue --
    What was your service number-
    of course that was before the politically correct social security number became your number----
    With old serial number system the initial digits told those who were in what era your service was or wasn't===sort of lessened the sea stories--
    In my era we were plagued with those who said they were at the frozen chosen or made the landing outside Seoul and even some sprinkling of some who claimed to island hopped across he South pacific ---
    We took what ever comfort there was in -- if we were there we knew -----and certainly had no place in squad bay sea story sessions or civilian bar room bull sessions
    * dang did I just show my age?……
    Bill Clark CPL -yes corporal were no lance corporal in the old corp
    :USMC 1623504

  4. #34
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    Bill,

    Go easy on those service numbers. The ones we got in Navy bootcamp had been recycled. You can imagine why.



    Sarge,

    Go easy on those Marine officers. Two of my closest friends are retired Marine officers. Each did 2 tours in 'Nam. One is a double Purple heart. One year while elk hunting with him, he got me out after I got hypothermia so bad I was walking 15 yards and sitting down in the snow and telling him to go on...I'll be along shortly. OF COURSE...I got hypothermia because of him but he brought me out alive without skinning me...quartering me and bringing me out on the pack mules! We,of course, had the usual Marine-Navy banter in elk camp, but he later asked me to serve in several official positions when he ran for office in several different sportsman organizations and I served as his VP in one and Treasurer in another one for 6 years.

    It's hard to admit from a former swabby but I'm fond of most Marines!
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  5. #35
    John and Bill my service started 2422XXX so I was obviously much later. We were always appreciative of the Army logisitcs support whether intended or involuntary. When I was in 1st CAG we got our resupply from the Americal Division who provided us 1 hot meal a day and all kinds of extras I never got in a rifle company under the Marine supply system. We had a gallows humor saying in the line companys that the Corps would rather spend a man than a dollar. My theory is that our lack of support came from our senior officers who were comany grades in the days just before and during Korea when Harry Truman wanted to do away with the Corps and almost did. They remembered that time and were adamant about proving that we were cost effective and gave a good value for the dollar. Each year even during Vietnam they turned back unspent funds to the treasury to prove this point. This idiocy cost a lot of unnecessary lives and naturally made our lives a lot less comfortable. We were eating C rations in Vietnam packed in the late 1940s until late 1968 and you don't want to even know the head stamp dates on some of our ammo.

    What kept us going was our pride in ouselves, our Corps, and our knowledge that each and every man had gone through boot camp and had earned the title Marine. I can't empasize enough the fact that this title was hard earned. It meant that the guy on either side of you, whether a friend or someone whose guts you hated, was dependable and would faithfully watch your backside. I unfondly remember a night when I was convinced our small compound was going to get overrun by the 74th NVA heavy weapons batallion. We all thought the 30 or so of us at MTT 1-1 were going to die that night, but not one man broke down or ran for it. We stayed and waited because whe didn't have orders to abandon our post. We got lucky. At dusk an army unit, 1st Squadron 1st Armed Cavalry, pulled into our compound with a company of Army grunts on its back and saved our bacon. With all that firepower, the ground attack never came and the next day we wenttour and cleaned clock. There was an area where for about 100 yards you could walk body to body and not have to touch foot to the ground. I have lots bad to say about Army units, but lots good to say too.
    Last edited by Dave Anderson NH; 07-13-2009 at 7:44 PM.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  6. #36
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    I'm ex Army..... Never saw combat but I sat on my duffle bag for three or four days locked down a couple of times while the Ranger's and 82nd kicked but in Panama & Grenada.... Straight leg infantry! Spent the next four years in Germany, laying low, while they were bombing the crap out of Libya....

    As infantry, our leaders would tell us....that there are two types in the military. Infantry and support! No offense to anybody intended... but, I kinda liked that old saying.

    Having family members that stormed Omaha, my Dad was in the Korean War and cousins who fought in Nam, nephews that are Marines... not to mention a deep love of my country. I have the deepest respect for all veterans, from any service from any time.

    I think we should, as a group, start a way to offer flag cases for our vets that have earned them.....

    I did, in fact, send an email to the pastor of the church where SFC Beale was being honored, and offered a flag case. I did not hear back from him, I would have been proud to have honored his service to my country.

  7. #37
    I didn't and still don't care about what the press and the hippies said about the Namy yamis--- I said then and say now i never knew a Marine i wouldn't trust with my back ..

    . Not my wife but my back---
    Let me say this again you guys did good
    -as good as our goverment would let you --still remember the exacuation of the embasy and kai sun almost sighed up after all that
    and I would stand beside you guys if that was what was required ..
    When I left the corps i became a State Trooper and in th60's we faced the civil unrest of the cities and as we were mustered into rat patrols for the riots along with miltary people... We were long singling out the ex marines oops former marines and we again had each others backs... i've heard it said that all marines become brothers there is something to all that even after all these years-- having said that now I got to add sometimes i wasn't too happy with my real brothers so it ok not to be excited with all ex marines...But only former marines can express that....
    dang should can get long winded about the corps...

  8. #38
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    I've had an apology from one of you for taking this thread in a different direction. Let me just say, no apology necessary. I see a bond here that you don't find often in life. Work it. Let's see where it goes. You guys are special, and there is a special connection between you that I can't ever hope to fathom, but it is wonderful, and it is vital, and I am more than happy for you to pursue it. Thread is just a thread, this is real. Carry on!

    “Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy and chivalry.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Everybody knows what to do with the devil but them that has him. My Grandmother
    I had a guardian angel at one time, but my little devil got him drunk, tattooed, and left him penniless at a strip club. I have not had another angel assigned to me yet.
    I didn't change my mind, my mind changed me.
    Bella Terra

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Clark De View Post
    I was just reading about pretenders to the corps. not sure if I find that pathetic -for I know people who have looked me in the eye and said” I was in the marines but washed out in boot camp Paris island-”- or maybe just as sad some who said
    “ I couldn’t pass the physical to get in the marines.”
    As to those who needed to fabricate their service in the corps in my day -Ok so that was old corps -
    we had a question that settled the issue --
    What was your service number-
    of course that was before the politically correct social security number became your number----
    With old serial number system the initial digits told those who were in what era your service was or wasn't===sort of lessened the sea stories--
    In my era we were plagued with those who said they were at the frozen chosen or made the landing outside Seoul and even some sprinkling of some who claimed to island hopped across he South pacific ---
    We took what ever comfort there was in -- if we were there we knew -----and certainly had no place in squad bay sea story sessions or civilian bar room bull sessions
    * dang did I just show my age?……
    Bill Clark CPL -yes corporal were no lance corporal in the old corp
    :USMC 1623504
    Thanks for taking care of the icebery in Korea, Bill. You Korean guys are the most neglected IMO with the exception of the Air Force who finally brought ariel dog-fighting into the 20th Century. Techniques were still the same as prop jobs but... with jets. BTW... were you at Chosen Reservior?
    And what Ken said about service numbers. I would not give mine out as I use it for passwords on quite a few things. Only thing a dumb country boy can remember without fiag. I can tell you the serial number on every weapon I ever carried also without a stutter.

    Regards...
    Sarge..

    Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
    Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fitzgerald View Post
    Bill,

    Go easy on those service numbers. The ones we got in Navy bootcamp had been recycled. You can imagine why.



    Sarge,

    Go easy on those Marine officers. Two of my closest friends are retired Marine officers. Each did 2 tours in 'Nam. One is a double Purple heart. One year while elk hunting with him, he got me out after I got hypothermia so bad I was walking 15 yards and sitting down in the snow and telling him to go on...I'll be along shortly. OF COURSE...I got hypothermia because of him but he brought me out alive without skinning me...quartering me and bringing me out on the pack mules! We,of course, had the usual Marine-Navy banter in elk camp, but he later asked me to serve in several official positions when he ran for office in several different sportsman organizations and I served as his VP in one and Treasurer in another one for 6 years.

    It's hard to admit from a former swabby but I'm fond of most Marines!
    I never met an officer that I didn't like.... well.... after I got out of the service anyway with the exception of an Army Colonel from WWII.. Korea. I have a feeling that all branch en-listed were not overly fond of officers during their tour of duty. The Marine officers were good but they were Marine officers and sometimes did things as Dave touched on about Marine logistics that wasn't necessarily always best for enlisted men. I'll touch on that in another post to Dave in a moment.

    BTW... next time you are hunting with your friend... explain to him how each branch tells time. If say 6 AM... I believe you swabbies say 6 bells or something similar... we Army say 0:600 hours and the Marines say the little hand is on Six and the big hand is on 12. That will p**s him off and be prepared to run.. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..

    Regards...
    Sarge..

    Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
    Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler

  11. #41
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    I decided to remove my statement. While it might be funny to me others might consider it demeaning. My apologies to any Marine I might have insulted.
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 07-13-2009 at 10:35 PM. Reason: demeaning statement
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Anderson NH View Post
    John and Bill my service started 2422XXX so I was obviously much later. We were always appreciative of the Army logisitcs support whether intended or involuntary. When I was in 1st CAG we got our resupply from the Americal Division who provided us 1 hot meal a day and all kinds of extras I never got in a rifle company under the Marine supply system. We had a gallows humor saying in the line companys that the Corps would rather spend a man than a dollar. My theory is that our lack of support came from our senior officers who were comany grades in the days just before and during Korea when Harry Truman wanted to do away with the Corps and almost did. They remembered that time and were adamant about proving that we were cost effective and gave a good value for the dollar. Each year even during Vietnam they turned back unspent funds to the treasury to prove this point. This idiocy cost a lot of unnecessary lives and naturally made our lives a lot less comfortable. We were eating C rations in Vietnam packed in the late 1940s until late 1968 and you don't want to even know the head stamp dates on some of our ammo.

    What kept us going was our pride in ouselves, our Corps, and our knowledge that each and every man had gone through boot camp and had earned the title Marine. I can't empasize enough the fact that this title was hard earned. It meant that the guy on either side of you, whether a friend or someone whose guts you hated, was dependable and would faithfully watch your backside. I unfondly remember a night when I was convinced our small compound was going to get overrun by the 74th NVA heavy weapons batallion. We all thought the 30 or so of us at MTT 1-1 were going to die that night, but not one man broke down or ran for it. We stayed and waited because whe didn't have orders to abandon our post. We got lucky. At dusk an army unit, 1st Squadron 1st Armed Cavalry, pulled into our compound with a company of Army grunts on its back and saved our bacon. With all that firepower, the ground attack never came and the next day we wenttour and cleaned clock. There was an area where for about 100 yards you could walk body to body and not have to touch foot to the ground. I have lots bad to say about Army units, but lots good to say too.
    I'm glad you mentioned about rather spend a man in lieu of a dollar as I was going to earlier but thought the better of it. I tend to agree as I was going to mention that the Marines take pride in returning money to the government each year with their budget. 3rd Marines had some Korean War era deuce and a halves... they seemed to always be short ammo and in some cases when they had Army artillery support would not use it. One of the reasons I took it upon myself to get some of our surplus ammo.. etc.

    Don't feel bad about the Korean C-rations as I got those also but line units all got hot meals when we got back to base camp which was average of 3 days in and 40-45 in the boonies. I was fortunate to get the fore-runner of dyhedrated rations on my 6 man hunter-killer team. Only 3 varieties then but better than C's. I am a beens and franks man for sure and learned to create with C's. Always carried a bottle of Tabaco Sauce with me and a few onions. A pinch of C-4 plastic explosives to create that blue hot flame to heat my beanie weenies and a cup of coffee heating water in a canteen cup using that very versatile C-4.

    I got tired of those dry saltine crackers though and would often bury them to keep the NVA's hands off them. But.. get in a fire-fight that lasted a few days and no Huey re-supply of rations... a man can get migthy hon-gree. Dig those crackers back up... brush off the red ants and they shore were Good at that point. Someone reading all this without having been to the mountain probably think we are all crazy. Maybe we are in a way but crazy about being alive would be a better evaluation.

    BTW.. won't argue about some complaints on Army units as they were what I call loose and dangerous. I was glad to have operated with 5 other guys I trusted.. were dedicated and I called the shots in the field which gave me more a sense of control of my and their destiny as opposed to an officer sitting in a base camp in a secure bunker looking for a promotion.

    I suppose I should shut up.. this has brought back memories of the way we were in comparison to the way we are now. I have enjoyed the conversation and if it continues.... so be it.

    Regards...
    Last edited by John Thompson; 07-13-2009 at 10:22 PM.
    Sarge..

    Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
    Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belinda Williamson View Post
    I've had an apology from one of you for taking this thread in a different direction. Let me just say, no apology necessary. I see a bond here that you don't find often in life. Work it. Let's see where it goes. You guys are special, and there is a special connection between you that I can't ever hope to fathom, but it is wonderful, and it is vital, and I am more than happy for you to pursue it. Thread is just a thread, this is real. Carry on!

    Thanks for your willingness to share this thread as sometimes these things just evlove in one way or another much as a conversation at a party when everyone is one drink over what they probably needed to have. And I do believe from your comments that if anyone is making sense of this outside of the few participating.. you would be there when all the smoke clears.

    By tradition each branch of service hates the other branches. But.. when the time arrives to defend the United States of America we drop those sentiments and stand.. rejoice.. cry.. bleed side by side with no exception as we have all taken a sacred oath to defend our country. When a man gives his word.. that is the same as a written contract and must be honored IMO.

    But.. when the security of the country has been secured.. we go back to fghting each other even though we do often take a break to drink a beer together and laugh a bit. But.. when the bottle is empty.. time to fight the other branch of service again until the next armed conflict that threatens the United States occurs when we get serious again.

    Another vicious and silly cycle we guys have. We aren't perfect and never claimed to be but when the going gets rough you can count on us to do what needs to be done so we can go back to well.. fighting each other. Now.. that does make sense doesn't it?

    Hope my analyzes gave you a chuckle...
    Sarge..

    Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
    Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Thompson View Post
    Thanks for your willingness to share this thread as sometimes these things just evlove in one way or another much as a conversation at a party when everyone is one drink over what they probably needed to have. And I do believe from your comments that if anyone is making sense of this outside of the few participating.. you would be there when all the smoke clears.

    By tradition each branch of service hates the other branches. But.. when the time arrives to defend the United States of America we drop those sentiments and stand.. rejoice.. cry.. bleed side by side with no exception as we have all taken a sacred oath to defend our country. When a man gives his word.. that is the same as a written contract and must be honored IMO.

    But.. when the security of the country has been secured.. we go back to fghting each other even though we do often take a break to drink a beer together and laugh a bit. But.. when the bottle is empty.. time to fight the other branch of service again until the next armed conflict that threatens the United States occurs when we get serious again.

    Another vicious and silly cycle we guys have. We aren't perfect and never claimed to be but when the going gets rough you can count on us to do what needs to be done so we can go back to well.. fighting each other. Now.. that does make sense doesn't it?

    Hope my analyzes gave you a chuckle...
    And ain't it funny John.....we can be at each other's throat in an inter-service rivalry bout at it's finest.....then someone comes along and picks a fight with one of the two of us.....and that poor 3rd guy gets stomped by the both of us who were at it in the first place!
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  15. #45
    I hadn't been reading this thread but read through it today.

    I came back from Vietnam in 1971. My memory's a bit weak, but I think we flew into Travis air base outside San Francisco. Took a couple of days to go through the outprocessing. I was in a BOQ room with a warrant officer who was heading to VN and he kept calling me "sir". I told him to knock it off - in another day or so I'd be a civilian. (His fatigues were all bright and green and mine were that light, faded lime color.)

    Anyway, I flew home from SF in uniform but I did not notice any hostility during the trip home. But I wan't looking for any - I was just happy to be out of the army. BTW, when we took off from Saigon, when the wheels left the ground, everyone - and I mean everyone - spontaneous applauded (then went to sleep). Was it the same when you left?

    I agree with Dave - I can generally tell if someone is BS'ing about being in VN. Everyone I ever knew had a 1,000 stories to tell and would bend your ear off if you even hinted about being interested. I know I have a bunch of stories and I didn't see combat.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 07-14-2009 at 1:12 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

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