A Hero's Farewell

[John Thompson]

Geez Mike! Why don't you find a sharper stick and poke a little harder? You're bound to get a rise out of 'em then!

As I stated Belinda... you have our number and nobody is going to sneak anything past you IMO.. Aw... just another of those MACV air conditioner guys doing a little fishing and trying to get a bite. He has thrown out the lure and trolling for one of us ground pounders (in my case a dumb country boy from Georgia) to swallow it. A nice lure in the form of very attractive French trained maids who does their laundry every day not to smell up the fresh de-humidified air from AC but.. we are smarter than we may initially appear in your rear view mirror.

If you want to catch a fish... regardless of how pretty the lure is the real key is in the presentation of the lure and we Barracuda's aren't biting on that one.

So Belinda... if you would be so gracious (and you have proved that already) you might tell my brother in arms that he has to do better job of presentation if he wants to fill the boat with the likes of us Mud Carp. I would tell him myself but.. I ain't speaking to him since I found out he had air conditioning and little French maids running around his luxury Condo suite high a-atop the Hilton Penthouse at MACV.

The dumb country boy from Georgia who just fell off a turnip truck yesterday.. NOT.. ha.. ha...

And as always.. highest regards for the evening to you, ma'am..

[Bill Clark De]

Afternoon Dave... just picked up 100 bd. feet of QWWO so I've been in the shop stickering. I hear you on officers as some were great.. some were not great. We had some 2 Lt's who came to we Sargeants and just flat told us they didn't have a clue and needed help. Those guys were fine but.. the one's that had the gung ho attitude were dangerous in about every action they took looking for the promotion.

But.. I was actually Long Range Recon Patrol trained and only spent about two months in a line unit as a sniper. But.. in Jan. of 69' the Army decided to re-enact the 75th Ranger Battalion. LRRP was designated Ranger and each Division had a company with Brigades as 173 also getting a company of Rangers. They broke us off into what we were trained for which was recon but with a twist. Instead of true recon my Division formed 4 six man hunter-killer teams with the team leader issued a Marine M 40 bolt action Remington.. bull barrel.. lined glass stock.. Redfield 12 x scope. I outfitted one man with a M 14 with competition barrel.. three with M-16's with silencers and the PRC 25 man originally carried the thump gun but... I took it away and gave him a 12 guage-9 round- pump shotgun with 00 buck.

Anyhoo... at that point we had Master Sgt. Mickey McCoy commanding the all 4 teams and he worked directly with a Major in the operations bunker. The Major was a gung-ho for sure but Mickey could side step him as he knew the ropes. If we had one of our night trip wire rigged Claymore quad traps go off we knew NVA had tripped the wire and most likely enemy casualities. With the exception of two tigers who were in the wrong place at the right time.

But... if we radioed that info back on a Sit Rep.. the Major would order us to go down to get a body count. Concealed in a night position we weren't going to do that. Morning and day-light would come. So.. we devised a secret code which would be picked up by Sgt. McCoy to let him know we had contact but disquise the fact to the Major. We changed each time we were inserted. Something of the effect of Chicken Jumped the Wire.. etc. That way McCoy could monitor the PRC 25 for the evening in case of trouble and report contact and confirms the next morning after day-light. You gotta do what you gotta do for every obstacle there is a by-pass if you think.

So.. all officers cannot be classified as bad... but the one's that were bad can kiss my southern *ss and we found ways to go around them due to a Master Sargeant (same a your Gunny) in charge of us.

Regards...

was that Major Jim Land?

[Mike Henderson]

As I stated Belinda... you have our number and nobody is going to sneak anything past you IMO.. Aw... just another of those MACV air conditioner guys doing a little fishing and trying to get a bite. He has thrown out the lure and trolling for one of us ground pounders (in my case a dumb country boy from Georgia) to swallow it. A nice lure in the form of very attractive French trained maids who does their laundry every day not to smell up the fresh de-humidified air from AC but.. we are smarter than we may initially appear in your rear view mirror.

If you want to catch a fish... regardless of how pretty the lure is the real key is in the presentation of the lure and we Barracuda's aren't biting on that one.

So Belinda... if you would be so gracious (and you have proved that already) you might tell my brother in arms that he has to do better job of presentation if he wants to fill the boat with the likes of us Mud Carp. I would tell him myself but.. I ain't speaking to him since I found out he had air conditioning and little French maids running around his luxury Condo suite high a-atop the Hilton Penthouse at MACV.

The dumb country boy from Georgia who just fell off a turnip truck yesterday.. NOT.. ha.. ha...

And as always.. highest regards for the evening to you, ma'am..

Ah, if only they were French maids.

But I bow to the master and surrender.

Mike

[John Thompson]

was that Major Jim Land?

Bill.. I need to clarify. I was in the Army and went over in 68' with the 1st Brigade of what was then the 5th Infantry Div. (dis-mantled just after the Panamo campaign) which was sent to gradually take over for 3rd Marines in I Corp on the DMZ who finally got everyone back to Okinaw by 1972 if my memory serves me correctly. So.. I was not a Marine but we were under tactical command of 3rd Marines who we were there to gradully relieve.

Major Land was a Marine Major and had a very large play latter in getting the Marine Scout Sniper School up and running in Quantico I believe. Carlos Hathcock was the Marine #2 sniper with confirms also had a play in that and taught at the school. I believe a gentleman named Chuck (I can't remember his last name) turned out to be the #1 man with what we call the "pop gun" or Marine issue sniper rifle at that time. There were some other weapons floating around and even a few 1917 Sprngfield 30.06 which is one of the most accurate military bolt actions ever made.

But... the Army didn't have a formal Sniper School at that time nor did they have their own sniper rifle until later when an M=14 with match grade barrel was adopted and outfitted with a Range-finder scope. So... I had to draw and sign out the official Marine sniper rifle from Marine armory. Army 5th Division simply trained us informally as Snipers by qualification with the 5th Div. rifle team back at Ft. Carson, CO.

We went to the range 7 days a week for 6 months to fire 100 rounds standing at 100 meters. 100 rounds sitting at 200 meters.. 10 rounds sitting a 300 meters.. 200 rounds prone at 600 meters and 100 rounds prone at 1000 meters open sight with a spotter behind us with binoculars to track the vapor trail of the 7.62 mm going down range. You can't see a full jacketed military round in flight but.. you can see the vapor trail as the bullet is actually a the tip of the V in the nose of the vapor trail. The spotter can tell you how to adjust 2nd round if necessary from that. Over 1000 meters was done with scoped rifles in training.

But they did have a Long Range Recon Patrol School I had to go through. Then we got mountaineer training from Pop Sorenson who was a qualified Swedish mountaineer working in Vail CO. at the ski resort as a snow ski instructor. Then we had to take a Recondo course in country VN just outside the beautiful French resort city of Nha Trang taught and ran by Army Green Beret. So.. we were the forerunners of the currently active 75th Ranger Regiment that was formally reenacted in 1974 and now headquatered at Ft. Benning, GA. which is also formally Infantry Command. Some of the tactics we developed and simply made up in field conditions are still used by Rangers today even though the equipment and weapons have advanced.

I did get to meet Carlor Hathcock after VN. He got burned bad pulling folks off a burning track vehicle when it was hit with a RPG or Russian rocket propelled grenade (similar to bazooka you knew in Korea but a much more powerful round as it could be rigged for every thing from Charge 3 up to Charge 7 depending on what you had to penetrate with it. Like the Russian AK=47... a great weapon and still in use by terrorist and military today.

I got hit with sharpnel from an RPG.. when the round goes off it feels like a magnatude 4 earthquake and the sound is loud enough to burst your ear-drums. I frankly had rather wrestle a wild pig than deal with an RPG.

Hope that helps... I just made it all up but.. it sounds good on paper doesn't it.. Just kidding.. the truth.. the whole truth and nothing but the truth just the way things should be.

Regards....

[John Thompson]

Ah, if only they were French maids.

But I bow to the master and surrender.

Mike

If.. if you think I'm trusting a MACV guy with air conditioner and French ( French in dreams even though I perfer women who take showers more often personally) to throw up a white flag and surrender (now that's really French) so easily you have spent too long with air conditioning. When I see you come out without a weapon and your hands on your head.. I will consider that a formal surrender and act appropriately. But not one minute sooner my freind.

With all kidding aside.. have a good evening Sir.. see how diplomatic I can be when I behave which is not often.

[Belinda Barfield]

The dumb country boy from Georgia who just fell off a turnip truck yesterday.. NOT.. ha.. ha...

And as always.. highest regards for the evening to you, ma'am..

Ain't no such thing as a dumb country boy from Georgia!

I am so looking forward to a visit from you and the Mrs.

BTW, I am waiting from a reply from Sheila giving me permission to give out her address. Sorry for the delay on that one.

Regarding your previous comment about Sgt. Beale, I didn't know him, but I'm going to hazard a guess that he wouldn't mind, would completely understand, and would be happy to have inspired such comraderie.

Regards to you as well.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Mike doesn't get any rise out of me Belinda. I freely admitted my envy of the creature comforts of the folks filling the support billets. We had a tendency to diss them and refer to them as Poges, REMFs, and other things, but all of us realized that without someone supplying us, providing commo, intel, and a host of other things, our job in the field would have been impossible. That doesn't mean though that they get off scott free. They take their lumps just like evryone else and most are good sports about the ribbing (most of the time that is).

Mike, I know the reality of all wars is that there is always political interference. Our system requires political control of the military even as the old Soviet system did before it sank under its own weight. That was why the Soviets kept KGB and political commissars/Zampolits with all military HQ, to watch, report, and control. I've always been a bit of a cynic and believed in the old Von Clauswitz quote something to the effect of, "War is a continuation of politics, by other means." My biggest villian in the Vietnam mess was the recently deceased Robert McNamara. His self serving book, justifications of what he did, and his statement about knowing the war was unwinnable years before he was canned would I suspect stick in the craws of most veterans of that era. The previous sentence is a heavily censored summation of my feelings about that cynical, self-seving and dishonorable man. If I stated my true feelings at the level I feel them I would be banned here even as a moderator. Let the Mark Twain quote suffice, I have never wished a man dead, but I read a number of obituaries with delight."

I'm about through with this thread. It has been very strange for me and I don't recall ever having written or spoken this much about the war in 40 years.

[Belinda Barfield]

I'm about through with this thread. It has been very strange for me and I don't recall ever having written or spoken this much about the war in 40 years.

Dave, I appreciate your contributions. One of the group I mentioned earlier never contributed to any discussion about Vietnam. One day I said to him, "Bill, you never talk about your days in Vietnam." He said, "I lived through it once, and I left it there. I don't want to live it again." It must still be traumatic on some levels to talk about those days, even the good ones, and I thank you for sharing.

[Harvey Ghesser]

Thank you so much Belinda, for bringing to us just a small offering of why this country and its people are so great!

[Bill Clark De]

Mike doesn't get any rise out of me Belinda. I freely admitted my envy of the creature comforts of the folks filling the support billets. We had a tendency to diss them and refer to them as Poges, REMFs, and other things, but all of us realized that without someone supplying us, providing commo, intel, and a host of other things, our job in the field would have been impossible. That doesn't mean though that they get off scott free. They take their lumps just like evryone else and most are good sports about the ribbing (most of the time that is).

Mike, I know the reality of all wars is that there is always political interference. Our system requires political control of the military even as the old Soviet system did before it sank under its own weight. That was why the Soviets kept KGB and political commissars/Zampolits with all military HQ, to watch, report, and control. I've always been a bit of a cynic and believed in the old Von Clauswitz quote something to the effect of, "War is a continuation of politics, by other means." My biggest villian in the Vietnam mess was the recently deceased Robert McNamara. His self serving book, justifications of what he did, and his statement about knowing the war was unwinnable years before he was canned would I suspect stick in the craws of most veterans of that era. The previous sentence is a heavily censored summation of my feelings about that cynical, self-seving and dishonorable man. If I stated my true feelings at the level I feel them I would be banned here even as a moderator. Let the Mark Twain quote suffice, I have never wished a man dead, but I read a number of obituaries with delight."

I'm about through with this thread. It has been very strange for me and I don't recall ever having written or spoken this much about the war in 40 years.

I think an Amen is in order---we rattled enough skeltons for the good of all -- lets move on .We are old now and we no longer need to hear the landing crafts commmanding Marines man your demarkaction stations etc ,Be well ---and dare i say it good night Chesty where ever you are
Semperi Fi

Thanks again Belinda for letting the venting work

[John Thompson]

Ain't no such thing as a dumb country boy from Georgia!

I am so looking forward to a visit from you and the Mrs.

BTW, I am waiting from a reply from Sheila giving me permission to give out her address. Sorry for the delay on that one.

Regarding your previous comment about Sgt. Beale, I didn't know him, but I'm going to hazard a guess that he wouldn't mind, would completely understand, and would be happy to have inspired such comraderie.

Regards to you as well.

I am glad you are requesting permission from Ms. Sheila in advance as I would not want to intrude on her privacy if she indeed seeks it. I haven't seen her on 40 + year and do appreciate her contributions so.. if you recieve permission give me a shout on PM or e-mail. She may not know who John Thompson is unless she puts 2 + 2 together. She may know me as Doc or Wayne my middle name and the one I used before entering the military where you go by first in lieu of second. And if I hear a comment about John Wayne I'm going to go to my shop and never come out in day-light again.

So.. the First Lady and I will get down your way as soon as possible. I have cranked out 8 large carcass pieces in my shop in the last 21 months and have at least 3 to go unless she decides otherwise. So.. not until at least late fall if this year.

I will also bow out here as I suppose we have covered the nostalgia quite throughly.. had a few laughs and maybe even educated some that were not there to a degree but.. time to return to the shop for the most part for me as the spirit of the wood I just stickered for acclimation is whispering my name.

Again Belinda... if Ms. Shiela permits give me an E.. If not.. no big deal as I may be able to contact through the Association of Ranger Wives if they have a site. Her brother KC is around our area so that is another possibility.

And thanks for your hospitality and toleration of our antics...

Scarlett O'hara could have picked up a few pointers from someone who is a true lady of the south to the very core of her soul.

Evening ma'am....

[Mike Henderson]

I think an Amen is in order---we rattled enough skeltons for the good of all -- lets move on .We are old now and we no longer need to hear the landing crafts commmanding Marines man your demarkaction stations etc ,Be well ---and dare i say it good night Chesty where ever you are
Semperi Fi

Thanks again Belinda for letting the venting work

I sometimes wonder if there's any interest outside other VN vets in hearing the stories of Vietnam (and probably limited interest there). While I don't have combat stories, I have a lot of stories, some funny, about what Vietnam (and especially Saigon and MACV HQ) was like during the war. It just seems a shame for all those stories to disappear when my wife and I die (she has her own set of stories). But maybe in the big scheme of things it really isn't interesting or important to anyone other than us.

And some of the work I did (using statistics to predict infiltration), while fascinating, had it's own set of funny stories. Officers trying to get promoted can really make a mess of statistics.

Mike

[Oh, and just to put one last dig in, here's a picture of me in Vietnam. It was taken in Long Hai which is a town close to Vung Tau. My future wife took the picture so I was not chasing that beautiful Vietnamese gal.]

[Belinda Barfield]

I sometimes wonder if there's any interest outside other VN vets in hearing the stories of Vietnam (and probably limited interest there). While I don't have combat stories, I have a lot of stories, some funny, about what Vietnam (and especially Saigon and MACV HQ) was like during the war. It just seems a shame for all those stories to disappear when my wife and I die (she has her own set of stories). But maybe in the big scheme of things it really isn't interesting or important to anyone other than us.

And some of the work I did (using statistics to predict infiltration), while fascinating, had it's own set of funny stories. Officers trying to get promoted can really make a mess of statistics.

Mike

More people may be interested than you think. A good story is a good story, regardless of the setting. If any of you want to share on a different level contact NPR StoryCorps.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4516989

Thanks again.

[John Thompson]

And some of the work I did (using statistics to predict infiltration), while fascinating, had it's own set of funny stories. Officers trying to get promoted can really make a mess of statistics.

Mike

I had to add something to your assessment of MACV Officers inflating statistics for their personal gain or a distorted picture might be painted. It also happened on Battalion.. Division and occasionally even Company level in the field. A report from the field that you had 16 confirmed might be 56 with un-confirmed even higher by the time a Battalion Battle Action report was written at that level so... MACV was not the only guilty party of self promoting ego and altering facts.

I will give a +1 to the Marine Corp as I never say it happen at Company level and I have doubts it ever happened higher. Can we say a pride in honor. So... my vote goes to the United States Marine Corp on a whole on the matter of Officer Honor with no due dis-respect to any Army Officer that was honorable and there were many that were but politics plays a large role at that level with the Army IMO.


As far as interest in stories I will agree with Ms. Belinda as you might be surprised. I think males in general have a fascination of war and combat. Young ones play computer games as Warcraft and can't get enough. I have heard many mature males state they felt guilty for not having seen combat. They wouldn't feel that way if they had I assure you and I explain that to them. We are talking nasty.. carnage.. hard-ship on a daily basis with a loss of human beings not old enough to legally drink in most cases and will never have the chance to enjoy life in full maturity.

So... write a book if you wish.. I have considered it but I communicate English composure and literature poorly and frankly... I enjoy the solace of being with tools.. wood alone to create objects of simplicity and function. It's my choice to tell the stories only when ask.

Again I will turn out the lights as the parties over.. perhaps we can come back at some other time and do the same old things again...

I will again exit Stage left with an expression I picked up down in southern Louisiana that has become an important part of my daily being....

Laissez Les Bons Temps Rouler...
Let the good times roll.....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Well guys. I never made it to Vietnam but served during the period.

I just came back from Spokane, WA where the last two days I worked at the National Veteran's Wheelchair Olympics.

I will tell you one thing that really made me feel good. I saw a huge number of veterans wearing ball caps and jean jackets...riding in wheel chairs but wearing caps and jackets PROUDLY identifying themselves as Vietnam Vets. I never thought we'd see that day after serving in the late '60s and 70s.