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Thread: Shop Terror

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Plano, Texas
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    Shop Terror

    My two year old is learning his colors. Two of his favorites are "Wed" and "Gween." My shop is in my garage, which our little guy toddles through 4-5 times a day when he's getting loaded into the car in the driveway.

    On three separate occasions, he's trotted over to the table saw, shouted "Gween," and tried to make it to the 'on' button. Out of justified paranoia, I physically unplug every power tool the minute I'm done using it. So he's never yet turned on a tool.

    The 'what if' scenarios are terrifying.

    For those with kids or grandkids, something to conisder.

    John

  2. #2
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    Jun 2009
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    Western Maryland
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    When I first saw your post topic, I thought...disaster. Then you started writing about your son, so I thought...oh, that kind of "terror"...hehe. Then when you wrote "wed" and "gween", I thought...Grizzly and blood!

    Glad to hear that you take the necessary precautions. Good daddy.

    It has been a while since I have seen a "new" large piece of "real" machinery to see if they have safety switches, but Ridgid seems to put those "keys" on their switches so you can remove them instead of having to unplug tools all the time.

    I suppose the makers of the "real" tools figure their stuff is going into "real" shops, where "terrors" "aren't".

    Glad to hear no accidents...
    I drink, therefore I am.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Newport News, VA
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    My two year old and I recently had that "discussion." It mostly consisted of his excited "Green" and my horrified "NO!" and him running back to the house to get a hug from Mom. Now he patiently explains that "Only Daddy push Green button."

    All the same, I have a lock that goes on mine.

    Cheers,

    Chris
    If you only took one trip to the hardware store, you didn't do it right.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Snowflake, AZ
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    791
    We have twin boys, now 31 y.o. When they were toddlers, all my tools were unplugged when I left the shop.
    When they were three I had a very gory, bloody accident on the TS. No lost digits, But 2 were compromised. They saw the results immediately as they were in the house when I came running in. The hand surgeon took lots of pics which I posted in the shop. I think their first sight of major bodily damage and, the continuous pictorial reinforcement taught them to leave the tools alone. Of course, as they gained some dexterity and interest, they worked in the shop with me.
    I wouldn't recommend this safety course to anyone else. But it did work.
    Gene
    Gene
    Life is too short for cheap tools
    GH

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Mosby's Confederacy
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    A disconnect or lock-out device may also be a good investment. Especially for those with older, more inquisitive, and more dexterous children.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Glenmoore, PA
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    You can see my solution to this issue in the second pic from the bottom in this thread.

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=80262

    Note the lock on it as well. I have since put one in to control the bandsaw and a second cabinet saw I have acquired. The one in the pic controls the ts and jointer.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
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    Definately start "training" the kid early to respect the power tools.

    Meanwhile, you can keep unplugging them, or flip the breaker, remove the "key" from the center of a switch or get a power cord lock. Small luggage locks sometimes fit through the holes in the power plug spades. Eventually though, a curious child (maybe 6-8yr old) could bypass all but a good industrial lock-out.

    You could also build him his own little bench and tools so he has his and you have yours. Explain that you aren't allowed to use his without permission just like he isn't allowed to use yours...
    Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Northwestern Connecticut
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    7,149
    Make your life easy. Run a 60A sub panel, run all machine circuits through that, put a lock out/tag out on the line side and SHUT IT ALL DOWN WITH ONE SWITCH. I can shut all my major power tools with three levers, all are mounted at least 60" from the floor, and all are steel boxes with locks to keep children and anybody else from getting in trouble. It also helps when changing blades and cutters or doing maintenance to have a manual disconnect that doesn't involve a plug.

    I have a two year old and a two month old growing quick. The two year old is learning his colors and LOVES to play with switches, so I know just where your at. Growing up my Dad had a wood shop in the basement. His strategy was to put the fear of God into us. I have opted for a slightly gentler and more fool proof approach. One big lever by the door, pull it on the way out, the only thing they can turn on is the lights.

  9. #9
    Rather than trying to make the world toddler proof I taught my girls what to do and not to do. As strategies go it was working well up to their early Teens:: the standard point where parents suddenly know absolutely nothing about anything and children know it all.

  10. #10
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    Ha, the fear of God works...fear of my father worked even better. Ah, those were the days...Dads would say NO and children listened. I remember my father approaching a young boys (my brother and myself) of inquisitive age, sitting us down on his (my father's) bed, reaching into his headboard cubbard, pulling out his 22 pistol. He unloaded it. Took it appart. Put it back together. Showed us what it was and how it worked, reloaded it and put it back in the headboard. Then said, "Well, that's my pistol. Don't EVER touch it." We knew what that meant. Maybe it was a repect for him. Maybe we were just good kids. But I'll tell you what... I never "wondered" about it. And I feared my father's wrath more that what the gun could have done to me IF I ever touched it. BTW, today, I own 3 guns. Of course, with our letigious world these days, mine are not "accessable to young fingers" (nor do I have children).
    I drink, therefore I am.

  11. #11
    The sub-panel idea is the best. Turning off the main breaker to the sub-panel shuts down everything, very good insurance. I appreciate your concern as I'm sure all who are parents here do.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Gainesville, Florida
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    81
    I think both the lockouts and the fear of God/dad coupled with some here's the consequences are a good idea. When mine were in that stage, I put luggage locks on the power cords of everything. But for those times when I forgot, or was just away for a second they were trained.

    As they got older and I allowed them to actually do things it the shop, a couple of demonstrations with a dowel along the lines of "This is your finger, this is your finger when it meets the band saw" got the point across. At first they thought it was a joke, then later I heard my son explaining how those tools are dangerous and could cut your finger off.

    Another good demo is to put an old blade in the table saw and make a two pass rabbit cut, trapping the scrap between the blade and the fence with predictable results. It makes a bunch of noise as it hits the stuff you purposely piled up against the wall, assuming it doesn't just impale itself in the wall, and teaches them quite dramatically not to get behind you when the saw is running.

    Kids seem quite able to understand the consequences of actions when demonstrated. What they seem to have hard time doing is making that connection in the abstract. One or two examples bridges the gap.

    ---Scott.

  13. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    Mid Missouri (Brazito/Henley)
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    YES, i'm an *Old PITA*!

    Shops full of dangerous tools and today's permissive parents could be a very dangerous MIX! Far too many Post-Modern parents assume *My child would never do THAT!* But, Oh Yesssssss They Would! Sadly, the kiddies of those who never read this thread will suffer the most.

    It might be Reasonable to take the kiddies on a TOUR of your shop, with strict eyeball supervision during every split-second! But, IMO under NO circumstances do toddlers, OR pre-schoolers need be in the shop while power tools are in operation.

    IF any operation is being performed, the *Dad, GrandDad, SignificantPerson* cannot keep his eye the child. Kids are FAST and very SingleMinded! Too FAST to assume anything but the WORST Case Scenario! Instead of an electrical lockout, I propose a Total Lockout of any shop doors when the owner is not present!

    Grade schoolers and teens have their Issues too. Tools disappear and Knowbody Knows where they went!!! Finally, found under the back porch or stuck in a tree, or in the floor board of a 17 year olds car.

    I DO advocate teaching kids and teens about tools. I DO advocate Strict SAFETY first, followed by Strict RESPECT for MY TOOLS! They are not community property (short of divorce)!!
    Last edited by Chip Lindley; 07-18-2009 at 2:58 PM.
    [/SIGPIC]Necessisity is the Mother of Invention, But If it Ain't Broke don't Fix It !!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA
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    852
    Currently, my boy and I have a pretty good system. He has a small chair in my shop, and whenever I want to turn on a major tool (ts, planer, router, OSS), he sits in the chair while it is running. Otherwise, he plays with his tools at a small bench while I am at mine.

    I recently reorganized my entire shop so that I could have him out there. It isn't toddler proof, but I can have him out there without fear of him hurting himself or me as long as I am there. Currently, it is impossible for him to get into the shop without me (I installed a latch about 6' up the door), and I am religious about having it latched.

    He's only two, so I don't know how effective object lessons will be just now. But I am a firm believer in the Fear of Dad. My dad put it into me about his power tools, and I am putting it into my boy as well.

    Cheers,

    Chris
    If you only took one trip to the hardware store, you didn't do it right.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Plano, Texas
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    Chris, the image of your son working next to you on his own bench is wonderful.

    A couple thoughts. First, I agree with an earlier poster that when I am running power tools, I am (and need to be) 100% focused on that. If my attention is divided, that's an easy way for me to have an accident. Much as I'd love to have my kiddo 'working' with me, he's at a stage now where he has to be watched constantly or he'll find something dangerous to get into. Neither reason nor the fear of God/dad are overly effective with a 23-month-old. Do you worry that he won't stay in his chair when you are operating machinery? For me, if he weren't confined in a cage, I'd definitely be preoccupied about what he's getting into. If he's mature and responsible enough that you have absolute confidence that he'll stay put, kudos to you for your parenting skills and to him for being such a well-behaved kiddo.

    Second, do they make hearing protection for little ones? When I was a kid in the seventies, I used to love to go hunting with dad. Hearing protection was never used, and I'm paying for that now. There's a fringe benefit, since I can feign deafness when my wife asks me to do something. But overall, I wish I had all my hearing.

    John

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